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Wolf tone on "C"


germain

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Any tips on how to eliminate an intermittent wolf tone? Seems to only appear on the note C in first position on A strings and also on the same note on D string in third position. The instrument was not properly set up after I acquired it. I just picked it up from the shop after replacing fingerboard, new bridge and complete set up but the wolf tone seems to be still present.

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4 hours ago, germain said:

Any tips on how to eliminate an intermittent wolf tone? Seems to only appear on the note C in first position on A strings and also on the same note on D string in third position.

In that case, it's probably even worse on the same note played on the G string.
You could try a wolf eliminator.....

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6 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

What did your luthier recommend?

My luthier is away for a few weeks teaching a class in Massachusetts. I shall wait for his return. I may try the eliminator

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It sounds like the classic ' C wolf on the A string'. I assume it is intermittent vs bow pressure? Try sticking a bit of blutack somewhere in the area below the bass side f hole to see if it moves it away from C a little. Lighter gauge strings might help. There are many long deep and wide discussions about wolves to be found here on M'net by searching. 

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My experience is that the frequency that cause this problem comes from the vibration on upper and lower bout acting with minor differens in frequency. The instrument do not know what it should hold and jumpe between two close frequancies, TH WOLF.  Making these two  close vibrating local structural area different in stress condition or equal the Wolf disappear. Easiest is separating the stress vibration on one of them . I have tested this for many years and do it by rubbing on the varnish. Not much is needed to fix the problem. The stiffness changes and the frequencies that make the Wolf become separated  and disappear.

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Germain,

what happens to the wolf if you tune the violin up a half step.....and the opposite way.

Any change?

I had a violin with pirastro gold with a wolf on c everywhere and changed to Amber strings(Warchal)

lower tension and it made a workable difference.

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5 hours ago, Gtone said:

Germain,

what happens to the wolf if you tune the violin up a half step.....and the opposite way.

Any change?

I had a violin with pirastro gold with a wolf on c everywhere and changed to Amber strings(Warchal)

lower tension and it made a workable difference.

Same for my fiddle. EP Golds were not a good match - very high tension, and the C wolf was very strong. Changed to Warchal Brilliant Vintage and although the wolf is still there, it is reduced quite a bit. 

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One method you might try is using a wolf tone eliminator, a small metal cylinder that clamps onto the string between the bridge and tailpiece. Adjusting its position can help dampen the problematic frequencies. Also, experimenting with different strings or adding a small piece of rubber under the strings near the bridge can sometimes help.

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In my case, I first tried all sorts of wolf elimination gadgets. They either didn't work or worked but were a bad compromise (worsened the tone quality of all notes to make the wolf better). Different string tensions didn't make as much of a difference as I had hoped it would. Soundpost adjustments didn't really help either. In the end, what made the biggest difference was swapping out the chin rest with a much lighter one, believe it or not. My C wolf is still there but it's much more manageable now...

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So removing the center mounted chin-rest almost completely eliminated the wolf tone. Then I experimented with different side mounted chin-rests I have lying around. The one made of olive wood seemed to be the best fit. Thanks for the input

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I love Augustin Hadelich's video. It's a reminder that almost all of the top soloist fiddles have at least one wolf on the C-C# on the G string. I take it as a sign of a good working fiddle that it has the wolf there. With luck, it falls on C1/2# and you can still use the C and C# on the G string without any special precautions. I remember going to see Kavakos in a recital shortly after he had changed Strads, and in the 2nd movement of the Brahms d-minor Sonata he did not even try to play the C's on the G-string, it was over to the D-string for all that!

My saddest wolf story is about a friend, a fine cellist who bought a beautiful Thibout for his talented daughter. The violin looked beautiful and sounded great, except for a nasty wolf in the usual place. As a cellist, he couldn't understand his daughter's objections, since he had to deal with wolves all of the time, but in the end he relented and had his luthier put in a new bass-bar. It did tame the wolf, but it also stifled the violin totally, as if it had been stuffed with rags.  

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6 hours ago, Michael Appleman said:

I love Augustin Hadelich's video. It's a reminder that almost all of the top soloist fiddles have at least one wolf on the C-C# on the G string. I take it as a sign of a good working fiddle that it has the wolf there. With luck, it falls on C1/2# and you can still use the C and C# on the G string without any special precautions. I remember going to see Kavakos in a recital shortly after he had changed Strads, and in the 2nd movement of the Brahms d-minor Sonata he did not even try to play the C's on the G-string, it was over to the D-string for all that!

My saddest wolf story is about a friend, a fine cellist who bought a beautiful Thibout for his talented daughter. The violin looked beautiful and sounded great, except for a nasty wolf in the usual place. As a cellist, he couldn't understand his daughter's objections, since he had to deal with wolves all of the time, but in the end he relented and had his luthier put in a new bass-bar. It did tame the wolf, but it also stifled the violin totally, as if it had been stuffed with rags.  

Wow... horrible

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