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Benzoin, is it useful in a varnish?


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I see a lot of places, which sell resins for varnish making, carry benzoin.
I never have seen, or possibly I just never noticed, its inclusion in historical varnish recipes. For anyone who does include benzoin resin, what properties do you feel it adds to the varnish, or any potential problems in combining it with other resins?

I understand it could be considered a plasticiser, and can help to slow down the evaporation of essential oils. Does this mean it can make a varnish overly soft, if added in large quantities?

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I will second your query! I'd like to know what it's like and how it usually behaves. 

I bought some recently from an Indian supplier and I'm not sure about what I received. The aroma is very strong which is expected. When I mixed it with alcohol it formed a yellowish suspension which then mostly settled out. I'll take some photos. 

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While I've never used Benzion in varnish, I have used it in a polishing formula. I've always considered Benzoin to be a "sticky" resin, and in varnish, it could keep it a little on the soft side, possibly more so in warmer temperatures. Since I've never seen it in a varnish recipe, that's just a guess.

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In my experience its use has been in polishing to give a higher sheen. A couple people I know use it on instruments they really want to shine. It can be dissolved in alcohol and applied by itself or added to a French polish mixture. A predecessor gave me a big hunk of it when he retired but I’ve never used it. Benzoin gives off a wonderful aroma in solution. 

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Benzoin makes a violin smell more exotic, which improves the sound via the phenomenon of synesthesia, though somewhat less than than the perceived improvement in sound  when a violin is attributed to Stradivari. :)

It also makes a nice "eau de violin shop"... much nicer than that from eating beans.

Benzoin is what I used on the "scratch-n-sniff" Christmas cards I sent out years ago.

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7 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Thank you to everyone who replied :)

Looks like the extra gloss, levelling ability, and whiff factor are the main things it brings to the table.

I use it in my French polish. 

The self leveling aspects are phenomenal. 

You can polish and not worry so much about the little rag marks left over because if you just let the violin hang for a day, the little swirls or streaks will just melt down nicely. 

I will say that French polish with benzoin will take longer to reach a state of cure that is good enough to put back into a case without leaving marks or sticking. 

It smells so good and that's almost worth the price of admission alone. 

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19 hours ago, FiddleDoug said:

While I've never used Benzion in varnish, I have used it in a polishing formula. I've always considered Benzoin to be a "sticky" resin, and in varnish, it could keep it a little on the soft side, possibly more so in warmer temperatures. Since I've never seen it in a varnish recipe, that's just a guess.

Do you use this polish on violins? Do you think using beeswax furniture polish for a final shine would be acceptable?

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7 hours ago, Nick Allen said:

I use it in my French polish. 

The self leveling aspects are phenomenal. 

You can polish and not worry so much about the little rag marks left over because if you just let the violin hang for a day, the little swirls or streaks will just melt down nicely. 

I will say that French polish with benzoin will take longer to reach a state of cure that is good enough to put back into a case without leaving marks or sticking. 

It smells so good and that's almost worth the price of admission alone. 

Here are some photos of the benzoin I recently bought. The compressed block of resin is about 1" by 2". I mixed about 1 gramme of it with some alcohol and it formed this yellow emulsion, continued shaking it at various times during the day and then left it.

A week later it settled to this yellowish fluid with some grains below.

What proportions do you use?

 

20240530_214635.jpg

20240519_132243.jpg

20240530_214752.jpg

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40 minutes ago, LCF said:

Here are some photos of the benzoin I recently bought. The compressed block of resin is about 1" by 2". I mixed about 1 gramme of it with some alcohol and it formed this yellow emulsion, continued shaking it at various times during the day and then left it.

A week later it settled to this yellowish fluid with some grains below.

What proportions do you use?

 

20240530_214635.jpg

20240519_132243.jpg

20240530_214752.jpg

Hmm. That doesn't look quite right for some reason... It could be the proportions that you used? I usually just put enough alcohol to make it just short of water consistency when it's fully dissolved. I filter it obviously as well. 

But this mixture does not look right. Benzoin should be more orange-gold in color, and it shouldn't settle out like that. There is some detritus to be had when dissolving the raw resin, but it's usually just bark and bug pieces with the occasional pebble/dirt. 

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30 minutes ago, Nick Allen said:

Hmm. That doesn't look quite right for some reason... It could be the proportions that you used? I usually just put enough alcohol to make it just short of water consistency when it's fully dissolved. I filter it obviously as well. 

But this mixture does not look right. Benzoin should be more orange-gold in color, and it shouldn't settle out like that. There is some detritus to be had when dissolving the raw resin, but it's usually just bark and bug pieces with the occasional pebble/dirt. 

That's what I suspected but I'll play with the ratios. 

I ordered some Sumatran benzoin from a different supplier this evening,  to compare. 

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On 5/29/2024 at 10:44 AM, David Burgess said:

Benzoin makes a violin smell more exotic, which improves the sound via the phenomenon of synesthesia, though somewhat less than than the perceived improvement in sound  when a violin is attributed to Stradivari. :)

It also makes a nice "eau de violin shop"... much nicer than that from eating beans.

Benzoin is what I used on the "scratch-n-sniff" Christmas cards I sent out years ago.

I think this is 100% the best use for it.  I know a guy that dabs it under chinrests just for the effect…

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23 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Benzoin makes a violin smell more exotic, which improves the sound via the phenomenon of synesthesia, though somewhat less than than the perceived improvement in sound  when a violin is attributed to Stradivari. :)

It also makes a nice "eau de violin shop"... much nicer than that from eating beans.

Benzoin is what I used on the "scratch-n-sniff" Christmas cards I sent out years ago.

My fresh violin's varnish didn't smell very good so I put a drop of vanilla extract under the chin rest.  A well known soloist tried out my violin for me and she said: " Well at least it smells good."

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2 hours ago, LCF said:

Here are some photos of the benzoin I recently bought. The compressed block of resin is about 1" by 2". I mixed about 1 gramme of it with some alcohol and it formed this yellow emulsion, continued shaking it at various times during the day and then left it.

A week later it settled to this yellowish fluid with some grains below.

What proportions do you use?

 

20240530_214635.jpg

20240519_132243.jpg

20240530_214752.jpg

What kind of alcohol did you use??? Best to use as close to 100% Ethanol as you can get. If it was something like 70% drugstore isopropanol, that would explain it.

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5 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

My fresh violin's varnish didn't smell very good so I put a drop of vanilla extract under the chin rest.  A well known soloist tried out my violin for me and she said: " Well at least it smells good."

A good smell has been known to overcome many evils. ;)

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8 hours ago, LCF said:

Here are some photos of the benzoin I recently bought. The compressed block of resin is about 1" by 2". I mixed about 1 gramme of it with some alcohol and it formed this yellow emulsion, continued shaking it at various times during the day and then left it.

A week later it settled to this yellowish fluid with some grains below.

What proportions do you use?

 

20240530_214635.jpg

20240519_132243.jpg

20240530_214752.jpg

I use 1:3.3 (resin:ethanol)
2 parts shellac
sandrac1- 1.5 servings
0.6 parts of frankincense
Benzoin 0.4 parts
Elemi 0.4 parts

Your condition is normal, it takes a few months to settle, I only use the clear part

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1 hour ago, jefcostello said:

I use 1:3.3 (resin:ethanol)
2 parts shellac
sandrac1- 1.5 servings
0.6 parts of frankincense
Benzoin 0.4 parts
Elemi 0.4 parts

Your condition is normal, it takes a few months to settle, I only use the clear part

Thanks!

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7 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

My fresh violin's varnish didn't smell very good so I put a drop of vanilla extract under the chin rest.  A well known soloist tried out my violin for me and she said: " Well at least it smells good."

Try benzoin. It's like a pheromone. Your instruments will walk out the door :)

 

 

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On 5/31/2024 at 12:19 AM, David Burgess said:

Too much water in the alcohol, possibly?

The same alcohol dissolves shellac ok so probably not. 

I tipped some of the clear thin liquid on my fingers to evaporate and there was only a slight stickiness to it although the perfume was hard to wash off. My sandwich for lunch was overwhelmed by it. 

I'm guessing that when people usually dissolve this it makes a nice syrupy liquid?  --- I think this lot is adulterated.

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Dissolved some Benzoin in alcohol last night. This morning filtered it. Applied some to a cheap violin, one hell of a shine with one coat, really glossy. A bit too bling for my liking. It’s good to experiment.

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