GoPractice Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 On 4/17/2024 at 6:24 AM, Victor Roman said: ( ... ) The standard for some two Centuries was that the artist should be truthful to the composer's intentions and one can but hope this will continue. I want to listen to Beethoven's ideas not to the two KP's. ( ... ) I do not believe that. Well, that artists care... many do study the paper that the ink scribes. Looking back, we might have a greater view of what might have been. But the superficial reality is that we understand very little of what persons felt compared to what they truly experienced. People in the past did not have information at their finger tips as we do now. I remember, and still spend ( substantially less ) time in libraries. And there are plenty of notable recordings. But performers we know, in the late 20th century are likely not knowing of the composer. Regionally, due to high speed rail, the adaptions and fashions of what might have been available in Vienna might have reached the Land of the Finns. The Beethoven myth, whatever that I might imply, is someone who with gifts, offered what he could, and was better than his time. It's complicated. He spoke to anyone who truly listened. I do believe through my lens, is that Beethoven was a humanist. He suffered a great ordeal as many did ( which might have been quite ordinary, certainly by today's standards ) growing up in the great city of Bonn. They must have adapted, and he appreciated and perhaps took the advantages of opportunities. Opportunities he created, which I can not evaluate and judge. Not sure he was happy with the gatekeepers as Schubert, Schumann ( tragically, ) and any extensions within the mid- European continent. I apologize for the generalization as my history on the ground and in the books is not as well formed as the scholars. From my mother, I hear music through writers of the period. I did locate an old English bound edition of Jean Christophe which made me very sentimental. I still have to open the package. What's that have to do with performances now? Only what listeners believe. Starting with Bach, if there were any elasticity in Art, it would have been individualistic. And adaptive. Do we want to believe that he was a great man, or that he wrote great music? It was certainly economic ( as the kids say ) back then, too. I want to believe that off stage, Beethoven's ghost could have given any artist a punch in the upper arm, whispering, " that sucked. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 18 hours ago, GoPractice said: I do not believe that. Well, that artists care... many do study the paper that the ink scribes. Looking back, we might have a greater view of what might have been. But the superficial reality is that we understand very little of what persons felt compared to what they truly experienced. People in the past did not have information at their finger tips as we do now. I remember, and still spend ( substantially less ) time in libraries. And there are plenty of notable recordings. But performers we know, in the late 20th century are likely not knowing of the composer. Regionally, due to high speed rail, the adaptions and fashions of what might have been available in Vienna might have reached the Land of the Finns. The Beethoven myth, whatever that I might imply, is someone who with gifts, offered what he could, and was better than his time. It's complicated. He spoke to anyone who truly listened. I do believe through my lens, is that Beethoven was a humanist. He suffered a great ordeal as many did ( which might have been quite ordinary, certainly by today's standards ) growing up in the great city of Bonn. They must have adapted, and he appreciated and perhaps took the advantages of opportunities. Opportunities he created, which I can not evaluate and judge. Not sure he was happy with the gatekeepers as Schubert, Schumann ( tragically, ) and any extensions within the mid- European continent. I apologize for the generalization as my history on the ground and in the books is not as well formed as the scholars. From my mother, I hear music through writers of the period. I did locate an old English bound edition of Jean Christophe which made me very sentimental. I still have to open the package. What's that have to do with performances now? Only what listeners believe. Starting with Bach, if there were any elasticity in Art, it would have been individualistic. And adaptive. Do we want to believe that he was a great man, or that he wrote great music? It was certainly economic ( as the kids say ) back then, too. I want to believe that off stage, Beethoven's ghost could have given any artist a punch in the upper arm, whispering, " that sucked. " One can actually make quite a good picture of Beethovens real life, should one be prepared to take the trouble. I visited the „Beethoven House“ in Grinzing, which I can only recommend to you and wrote a short report for those on Maestronet who might be curious https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/346592-josephmichael-haydn-birthplace-in-rohrau/&do=findComment&comment=975609 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPractice Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 Thank you! Wish I had gone... have been to the pink house in Bonn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Roman Posted April 21 Author Report Share Posted April 21 On 4/19/2024 at 10:32 PM, GoPractice said: I do not believe that. Well, that artists care... many do study the paper that the ink scribes. Looking back, we might have a greater view of what might have been. But the superficial reality is that we understand very little of what persons felt compared to what they truly experienced. People in the past did not have information at their finger tips as we do now. I remember, and still spend ( substantially less ) time in libraries. And there are plenty of notable recordings. But performers we know, in the late 20th century are likely not knowing of the composer. Regionally, due to high speed rail, the adaptions and fashions of what might have been available in Vienna might have reached the Land of the Finns. The Beethoven myth, whatever that I might imply, is someone who with gifts, offered what he could, and was better than his time. It's complicated. He spoke to anyone who truly listened. I do believe through my lens, is that Beethoven was a humanist. He suffered a great ordeal as many did ( which might have been quite ordinary, certainly by today's standards ) growing up in the great city of Bonn. They must have adapted, and he appreciated and perhaps took the advantages of opportunities. Opportunities he created, which I can not evaluate and judge. Not sure he was happy with the gatekeepers as Schubert, Schumann ( tragically, ) and any extensions within the mid- European continent. I apologize for the generalization as my history on the ground and in the books is not as well formed as the scholars. From my mother, I hear music through writers of the period. I did locate an old English bound edition of Jean Christophe which made me very sentimental. I still have to open the package. What's that have to do with performances now? Only what listeners believe. Starting with Bach, if there were any elasticity in Art, it would have been individualistic. And adaptive. Do we want to believe that he was a great man, or that he wrote great music? It was certainly economic ( as the kids say ) back then, too. I want to believe that off stage, Beethoven's ghost could have given any artist a punch in the upper arm, whispering, " that sucked. " I have to confess that I am at a loss in understanding what is your point and I notice myself having that difficulty with some of your other posts. Here in particular, speculations on B's frame of mind or pecuniary interests are superfluous : the 1st question is : did B intended his music to be played as written or not. I am not a musicologist but as far as I remember from all I have learned and read, B wanted it played as written. The 2nd question is if the two PK's are "enlightend" and gifted enough to make a dog's dinner out of the Earth's most celebrated composer. The one who wrote the 5th, the 9th and the Emperor concert. I think not but nonetheless I'd be curious to hear informed arguments to the contrary, should you have any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNeedAnswers Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 The question that comes to my mind is, should we care what a person who lived 200 years ago wanted. As a listener and musician I see the composers intentions as a perspective and possible approach (and one I often prefer), but nothing canonical. Also, the recordings with Oistrakh I know definitely don't sound like orchestras back when Beethoven lived either, so I'd argue not as Beethoven intended. If we just want that, AI is the better bet than musicians, in the near future. Or we just read the score and be happy with that instead. IMHO, there is more to life than HIP, if one likes the examples mentioned here or not, wishes of long gone people itself are no argument by themselves, but need further backing. If we only used everything intended as its originator intended, we lived in very different and worse world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 This is the most interesting thread I’ve read in quite some time. I’ve always said that the better a player is, the more easily he can create his own concept of a piece. Technical Perfection is no longer the goal( as it might well have been 100 years ago, even if no one would have admitted it.) now it’s something else: one can either duplicate the composers original intent, which is fine, or do something original, which is fraught with danger. Either way, there are consequences. With all respect to Stephen, I don’t like Kopaschinskaya at all. She’s a caricature, and I see a tremendous waste of such extreme ability. Any interpretation must serve a vision somehow, and my qualms with a lot of modern takes is that the performer is tasteless, and/or indulging in shock value. I respect her right-and ability- to make her choices, but she also respects my right to disagree with them. I listened to this Beethoven, and I’m undecided on whether I like it. But it’s worth listening to again, which I guess is one meaningful goal. For me the ultimate is Menuhin/Furtwangler, but I’ll admit that maybe just because it was my first love. And it was also a love and support of Menuhin for Furtwangler. I was quite surprised to dislike the Szeryng Beethoven, btw. Always thought it was too harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 I’d like to throw in an interesting analog from poetry. I love reading and reciting poetry, and I think of it as theater. I love Edna st Vincent Millay, and one of my favorites of hers is “what lips my lips have kissed” on a whim, I looked up several recitations on YouTube, and they were all terrible. The worst was apparently Edna herself, clattering through this lovely sonnet like a 90 WPM typewriter. when I recite it, the pacing follows the emotional flow and not necessarily the metre: key words are gently emphasized, and the phrasing follows normal speech as near as possible. Such a reading might get me stoned, but I much prefer it to the monotony of what I heard. I have no problem with rhythmic liberties at all, so long as they are tasteful. Hyperbole has little place in music, unless the composer has written “con hyperbole” somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Fine Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 It makes sense to me for people to have extreme opinions on Kopatchinskaja. Even negative opinions make some sense to me. But, she's so revered, has had such a long, respected career at this point... she doesn't need my defense of her. The tastemakers have spoken, long ago. Her style isn't for everyone, but there's no denying she's got it. I just love the clarity of her phrasing, the drama of her musical ideas, her technical control... I don't think calling her expression a caricature is right, but it's close to what I could imagine a person could think about how she plays. I think she's an artist closer to Glenn Gould or John Eliot Gardiner. Someone with a powerful vision. My other favorite Beethoven is that spectacular recording by Viktoria Mullova with Gardiner and the ORR from 2006. Here's some of my favorite Beethoven by Gould: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 4 hours ago, iNeedAnswers said: The question that comes to my mind is, should we care what a person who lived 200 years ago wanted. As a listener and musician I see the composers intentions as a perspective and possible approach (and one I often prefer), but nothing canonical. My illusions about what blokes living 200 years ago wanted was shattered some years ago at an exhibition on 19th C Viennese Musical life at the Kunsthistorishe Museum. That was the era of string quartettes, and there were (amongst much else) 19th C cartoons of people like Schubert, Beethoven etc. looking decidedly ill listening to amateur groups playing, even sight reading their quartettes. The point was in those pre-radio, pre-gramophone record times, publishing & selling new quartettes to the enormous amateur public was bread & butter to those composers. It reminded me of my own childhood, when I was dragged along to “chamber-music courses” every summer. During the morning there would be set coached groups, but from lunchtime on, it was ad-hoc. One would sit there, minding ones own business, and some old lady would come and press-gang one into some quartette session. I remember turning up with my cello, and the three old ladies suggested “warming up with an Op. 18”. I protested that the Op. 18 quartettes were actually fairly difficult, should one wish to make a good job of it. The toothless blue rinse octogenarian viola player grinned, leant over and said “speak up luv, I’m a little deaf”. The exhibition at the Kusthistorische made me realise that “authentic” wasn’t the polished performance of the Alban Berg at the Musikverein, but the toothless blue rinse brigade “bashing through” an op. 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNeedAnswers Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 @jacobsaundersGreat story, thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPractice Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 On 4/21/2024 at 7:07 AM, Victor Roman said: I have to confess that I am at a loss in understanding what is your point and I notice myself having that difficulty with some of your other posts. Here in particular, speculations on B's frame of mind or pecuniary interests are superfluous : the 1st question is : did B intended his music to be played as written or not. I am not a musicologist but as far as I remember from all I have learned and read, B wanted it played as written. The 2nd question is if the two PK's are "enlightend" and gifted enough to make a dog's dinner out of the Earth's most celebrated composer. The one who wrote the 5th, the 9th and the Emperor concert. I think not but nonetheless I'd be curious to hear informed arguments to the contrary, should you have any. Mr Roman, Not posting to ruffle feathers. Where I live, the tendency is for kids, who become adults, who become kids again to ask who are the best. A bad habit for kids to have. I would rather have them form an opinion based on their experiences. Then maybe explore to further develop opinions. There's no need to understanding my posts if the artistic world is subjective. My posts are strange perhaps, incoherent maybe. But that is the age we live in. The bowed instrument has had a wonderful run, and for at least the past two decades have had a surge, and hope it continues to do so, but given my lived grim forecasting, my views have had to expand within reason. I grew up when there was not much in the way of the arts ( in schools and the metro area - organizations and studies disappearing. ) Beethoven gave us so much. Of course, most of us do not think about improvising the opening of the 4th mvmt of the 9th Symphony or any thing after the 3rd symphony. But the composer in me thinks what would an ensemble of cellos sound like, playing it like Ornette Coleman? But we like it noble. Ornaments ( some call laments ) I am sure were added and perhaps Beethoven hated them all. Anywasy, by the last quartets, even with marked tempi, there are many ways to play and voice the works given our current timbre. Beethoven as a keyboardist, like any great church organist, was likely asked to improvise or vamp. I am sure all keyboardists did at the time. A deaf Beethoven was less likely to offer certain feedback and assurances from his middle and later works, though his perceptions would have given him solid indicators during rehearsals; my feeling is that others likely shortchanged him with the thoughts that he had difficulty hearing. What a curse. I am not a great student of history. In reading, I learn, but was not there. A hundred years after Beethoven's death I would be curious as to how the concertos sounded throughout Europe, the Americas, or Asia. But it might be understood that most artists had a degree of showmanship to travel a far. When performers contractually allow for distribution of intellectual properties, especially to a well streamed channel, they might have put some thought behind it. I am still evaluating what parts were bold, what were waning, and trying to guess what the ensemble/ conductors/ producers thought. Was it elegant? was it refined? did it have to pound? was it Pirastro of Thomastik? These are mostly details trying to nail down items on a deck of a ship in the storm. I do like robust attempts. There are phases in careers and this performance is not one of a youngster. Mullova is a gifted player with a patience and great thought. I have read some researched bios and interview and was even impressed when her Tchaikovsky/ Sibelius was released on Phillips decades ago. A bit wound tight, but that was the era. She had to follow Mutter and Chang. When teenagers have generally play the Beethoven, the notes loud and fast, then Ms Hahn surprised many of us, now decades later. The ancient dance of the 3rd mvmt... was it supposed to be jolly, exciting and fun or is it more like a czardas as some have performed. How fast are people's feet? I will someday try to locate a re- creation of that dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matesic Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 Unfortunately we all tend to judge individuals on whatever limited evidence comes our way. This caused me to find more room in my mind, not about Brahms (he already has plenty) but about PKo. It's a decade old so I wonder if she'd play it the same, completely unaffected way today? Is there something about Brahms's music that deters excessive interpretation in a way that Beethoven's doesn't? Most likely, I think some players (the most intelligent ones?) constantly have to find new ways to keep familiar works fresh in their own minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbos Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 Such an interesting debate! I think every artist mentioned here does play what Beethoven wrote. All the notes are there (ossia or not), the pianos are soft and the fortes are strong. The difference between them lies in what Beethoven didn’t write, which is fair game and not necessarily limited to HIP. In fact, none of the violinists mentioned here do anything related to it. On the topic of PatKop, it’s hard for me to take her seriously outside of new music, where she excels. I know the folks at the Berlin Phil love her, and they know about violin much more than me, but I just do not see the appeal. I think I have listened to pretty much everything she has released, often multiple times, to see if my opinion changed, but I find the sound to be too often forced or undefined, almost never lyrical. She tends to “square up” and play more academically when the passage is hard, which to me makes the rest of her playing seem inauthentic. She is often compared to Gitlis, but he never did that, and instead he would allow himself to fail, but without compromising his idea of a passage. I fail to understand how posting a video of Pekka Kuusisto playing Beethoven somehow denies the artistry of Oistrakh et al. Why can’t we enjoy and debate both? On a different note, I frequently see people talking about how Oistrakh, Heifetz, Menuhin, etc, while being great, did not care much about historically informed interpretation or being true to the composer, and they cite that as the reason why they like newer artists. Of course they cared! You can find many interviews and masterclasses talking about that very same thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicM Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 6 hours ago, matesic said: Unfortunately we all tend to judge individuals on whatever limited evidence comes our way. This caused me to find more room in my mind, not about Brahms (he already has plenty) but about PKo. It's a decade old so I wonder if she'd play it the same, completely unaffected way today? Is there something about Brahms's music that deters excessive interpretation in a way that Beethoven's doesn't? Most likely, I think some players (the most intelligent ones?) constantly have to find new ways to keep familiar works fresh in their own minds. Nothing special there. Just a bit over mediocre. She has the "moments" now and thenbut can not sustain those. I know why she took the course she did : she had to find a way to shock the public and get more attention. Clear that Oistrakh and PK do not inhabit the same music paradise. Not even close. She can be deep down a super talented musician. But her "translation" on violin is going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicM Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 5 hours ago, Arbos said: Such an interesting debate! I think every artist mentioned here does play what Beethoven wrote. All the notes are there (ossia or not), the pianos are soft and the fortes are strong. The difference between them lies in what Beethoven didn’t write, which is fair game and not necessarily limited to HIP. In fact, none of the violinists mentioned here do anything related to it. On the topic of PatKop, it’s hard for me to take her seriously outside of new music, where she excels. I know the folks at the Berlin Phil love her, and they know about violin much more than me, but I just do not see the appeal. I think I have listened to pretty much everything she has released, often multiple times, to see if my opinion changed, but I find the sound to be too often forced or undefined, almost never lyrical. She tends to “square up” and play more academically when the passage is hard, which to me makes the rest of her playing seem inauthentic. She is often compared to Gitlis, but he never did that, and instead he would allow himself to fail, but without compromising his idea of a passage. I fail to understand how posting a video of Pekka Kuusisto playing Beethoven somehow denies the artistry of Oistrakh et al. Why can’t we enjoy and debate both? On a different note, I frequently see people talking about how Oistrakh, Heifetz, Menuhin, etc, while being great, did not care much about historically informed interpretation or being true to the composer, and they cite that as the reason why they like newer artists. Of course they cared! You can find many interviews and masterclasses talking about that very same thing! An excellent post !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicM Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 13 hours ago, GoPractice said: There's no need to understanding my posts if the artistic world is subjective. My posts are strange perhaps, incoherent maybe. Yes, your posts ARE incoherent. If there is no need to understand them ( as you say ) then why bother ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicM Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 On 4/17/2024 at 3:17 AM, Stephen Fine said: I feel like the example of Newton and Leibniz is usually instructive. They make it clear how important being in the right time at the right place is. Yes, they were geniuses, but they discovered calculus because it was time. Maybe you do not know but I have a high power research mathematician in the family. Neither Newton nor Leibniz "discovered" calculus. Rather, they formalized procedures known for a long time. The Greeks knew them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altgeiger Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 There's been a lot of talk about the need to respect Beethoven's intentions, but as a lot of others have pointed out, his intentions are hard to discern with any specificity. I don't think it's necessary to know more of the composer's intentions than are expressed in the score; there are lots of right ways to perform a work, and the composer knew at most one of them. Developing a coherent, responsible interpretation of a piece is hard work, but it's not complicated: Approach the work with the attitude that presenting it well is more important than displaying yourself Study it until you understand it as well as if you wrote it yourself Perform it with accuracy and assurance, communicating what you have understood It's easy: the only hard bits are steps 1, 2, and 3. But if you achieve it, you don't have to be "innovative" to have your performance seem fresh and new. That's why a hundred-year old recording of one of the greats of that time can sound as fresh to us as those made by the absolute cream of the present day, and why "innovative rebels of the violin" often sound so trite. I think there have been a couple "innovative rebel" interpretations posted here already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matesic Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 Coincidentally this just appeared in the Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/music/2024/apr/23/violinist-patricia-kopatchinskaja-interview-aurora-southbank-centre In the interview she doesn't explicitly mention how she approaches "standard" repertoire but this quote seems to explain it pretty well. “But it’s more exhausting to play pieces that are meaningless to me,” she counters. When that happens – as it unavoidably does sometimes – she works at finding something in the music to connect with: “It has to have an echo in what is happening today. Otherwise I’m a product of a museum. Playing the same piece hundreds of times the same way, it’s like buying a souvenir from a museum shop. It doesn’t really have any value to me.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPractice Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 8 hours ago, VicM said: Yes, your posts ARE incoherent. If there is no need to understand them ( as you say ) then why bother ? Yes, glad you agree. I usually post during lunch time making it a bit more difficult to staying on task. Not sure what everyone's musical experiences have been. Mine certainly was not linear. Organized sound is a bit like organized religion. There are many who express better, sure. Does this help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Roman Posted April 23 Author Report Share Posted April 23 6 hours ago, matesic said: Coincidentally this just appeared in the Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/music/2024/apr/23/violinist-patricia-kopatchinskaja-interview-aurora-southbank-centre In the interview she doesn't explicitly mention how she approaches "standard" repertoire but this quote seems to explain it pretty well. “But it’s more exhausting to play pieces that are meaningless to me,” she counters. When that happens – as it unavoidably does sometimes – she works at finding something in the music to connect with: “It has to have an echo in what is happening today. Otherwise I’m a product of a museum. Playing the same piece hundreds of times the same way, it’s like buying a souvenir from a museum shop. It doesn’t really have any value to me.” Thank you for the quote. I often think that some violin players should see themselves to be rather "sound reproducers" instead of artistes. That some pieces are meaningless to her does not mean they are meaningless to the informed public at large. Maybe she should re-double her efforts ? Her attitude embodies disrespect for both the public and the composer. When the composer is Beethoven or Brahms, one should have been taught to know better. There must be some reason we don't hear (almost) anybody else doing that sort of thing. It's got to do with respect, tradition and.... respect for tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Roman Posted April 23 Author Report Share Posted April 23 14 minutes ago, GoPractice said: Yes, glad you agree. I usually post during lunch time making it a bit more difficult to staying on task. Not sure what everyone's musical experiences have been. Mine certainly was not linear. Organized sound is a bit like organized religion. There are many who express better, sure. Does this help? Is writing posts on Maestronet some form of therapy for you ? Sincere question ! Why not consider that somebody is taking the TIME to read and might deserve some... streamlining ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPractice Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 1 hour ago, Victor Roman said: ( ... ) It's got to do with respect, tradition and.... respect for tradition. Absolutely, I agree. But there are many traditions, even with Beethoven and Brahms. If we scribe concentric circles from Vienna, I am located very far away. Teaching students even for twelve years, the possibilities are limited. The kids currently have access to recordings to such great degree, that mimicry is often an approach not fully understanding some context. The music as printed is pretty normal. In the end a tradition is to copy something, really, unless there's heart in the performance. Then it might be Grand Tradition. New Year's and some summer festival performances might have this. Maybe the musicians just look like they are having fun. Beethoven and Mozart get played rather regularly, as did LA Chamber Orchestra the other night ( k 364. ) It was an interesting pairing of players and instruments. How far do ( should ) are memories go? Solti? Karajan? 1 hour ago, Victor Roman said: Is writing posts on Maestronet some form of therapy for you ? Sincere question ! Why not consider that somebody is taking the TIME to read and might deserve some... streamlining ? It would be hard to presume. I realize that my posts, and generally as a person, am/ are obtuse. And do apologize that there are limited minutes in any person's day. Skip my posts. OK, finished setting up a Taylor and back to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Roman Posted April 23 Author Report Share Posted April 23 8 minutes ago, GoPractice said: I realize that my posts, and generally as a person, am/ are obtuse. And do apologize that there are limited minutes in any person's day. Skip my posts. Will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matesic Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 13 hours ago, GoPractice said: Organized sound is a bit like organized religion. Hear, hear. If there's a doctrine or a dogma I'll try to find a reason to disagree with it. Which isn't to say I'll agree with all the other heretics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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