Sean Couch’s Bench

[Davide Sora]

The cause is probably that by planing the outside you changed the internal tensions of the pieces, and the wood moved. This is why I said that it is important to carry out these operations before starting to make the actual joint. Of course, the fact that you got it wet and warmed up may also have contributed. Wood absorbs humidity faster than it loses it, it would be better to wait at least two or three days for it to stabilize. I think full EMC stabilization takes about a week.

[Sean Couch]

31 minutes ago, Davide Sora said:

The cause is probably that by planing the outside you changed the internal tensions of the pieces, and the wood moved. This is why I said that it is important to carry out these operations before starting to make the actual joint. Of course, the fact that you got it wet and warmed up may also have contributed. Wood absorbs humidity faster than it loses it, it would be better to wait at least two or three days for it to stabilize. I think full EMC stabilization takes about a week.

Right on, I can let the pieces sit for a couple days or more. I don’t need them anytime soon so I will probably wait to glue the center joint until I do. Last night the gap between the pieces was a little over 1mm and this morning it is a little less than 1mm. 

[Sean Couch]

I think I am about ready to finish the edges and have a go at inlaying the purfling on the top. I still have a bit of work to do on the arching but I’m hoping to refine it to finished while scraping.

[MikeC]

Are you using arching templates?  that lower bout arch looks too full, needs more recurve but you did say more refinement so...

[Sean Couch]

10 hours ago, MikeC said:

Are you using arching templates?  that lower bout arch looks too full, needs more recurve but you did say more refinement so...

I am using templates. The lower bout and some other areas are a bit full. I have about 1mm to take off to fit the templates. I am struggling with keeping the ledge at a decent thickness. The method I was following has you create the ledge at the beginning, then purfling, and the arching. So I am all over the place right now.

[Sean Couch]

I went and looked again and yes, the lower bout was further off than I thought. It is about 2 mm from the template. I removed some material in the lower bout and from the long arch to bring that a bit closer too. Not to mention a few futzes on the other template locations. Now I need to go back and “stitch” everything together.

I also need to remove some material along where the ledge and arching meet. Like Mike said, needs more recurve. Should I do that now? I was hoping that it would be a bit easier for me to visualize it after I have the purfling scoop/channel done.

[Sean Couch]

Got it closer, still about one millimeter away on my templates. I’ll keep working on it. I need to make some better templates. Maybe after I get my purfling channel cleaner thinned down. The one I bought came in at 1.6mm thick. Must not have been for a violin. 

Thanks again for the feedback. Hopefully someday soon I will start seeing the issues before I post them here.

Lower bout:

 

End view of lower bout:

Side view:

 

Upper bout:

[MikeC]

That's looking better,  before it looked kind of like an upside down bowl.  I think once you get the purfling channel in and blend it in it will be good.   

[Sean Couch]

11 minutes ago, MikeC said:

That's looking better,  before it looked kind of like an upside down bowl.  I think once you get the purfling channel in and blend it in it will be good.   

Right on, I think I knew it was wrong, but was too timid to tackle it. I just needed a nudge to get me going. Thanks again for that.

One thing I am noticing is that I am starting to “see” things better. Once I took some material away from the ledge, I could “see” what needed to be done. I reckon it is all about training the brain and the eyes. I wish my old brain would learn quicker. lol.

[Sean Couch]

Not much progress to show in pictures. The only changes that would be visible is I got the ledge down to an even thickness and it is now flat and I smoothed the surface a bit with some scraping.

I think I am ready for purfling. I practiced cutting and clearing the channel a bit on some scrap spruce and I need more practice.

I have seen makers inlay the purfling and then do the scoop/fluting and others who cut the scoop/fluting and then inlay the purfling. Is there an advantage to either method or is it personal preference?

[Sean Couch]

Spent some time today revisiting the back center joint. Looks much better this time than before. I used Davide’s method of pouring the glue on the joint and letting it all squeeze out. The joint did not grab in 3 to 5 seconds like it did the first time around. This time it took about 10 seconds for it to start to grab. I used my 222 strength hide glue at 2:1 water to glue (by weight). I think the first time I did it I was at a 1.5:1 ratio.

Here is a picture of the newly glued back:

 

As for the top, I am a bit stuck on the purfling. I am going to practice more, but I’m not sure if the blades I am using in my homemade purfling cutter are stiff enough. The blade will follow the grain on my pine practice pieces and tend to wander a bit. I might make my own or just buy a set of replacement blades.

[Andreas Preuss]

On 4/26/2024 at 2:25 AM, Sean Couch said:

I think I am about ready to finish the edges and have a go at inlaying the purfling on the top. I still have a bit of work to do on the arching but I’m hoping to refine it to finished while scraping.

Some luthiers are making the arching by starting from the inside. In some way I think then the arching shape is much easier to understand without using any templates. All the curves should flow naturally into the flat surface of the edge. The outside is then only a result of minimising the thickness to that shape. 

[Sean Couch]

On 5/4/2024 at 2:22 AM, Andreas Preuss said:

Some luthiers are making the arching by starting from the inside. In some way I think then the arching shape is much easier to understand without using any templates. All the curves should flow naturally into the flat surface of the edge. The outside is then only a result of minimising the thickness to that shape. 

Yeah, I have seen a couple posts where people are doing the inside out thing. I may have to try that. It might be what I need to help me visualize the outside arching.

[Andreas Preuss]

11 minutes ago, Sean Couch said:

Yeah, I have seen a couple posts where people are doing the inside out thing. I may have to try that. It might be what I need to help me visualize the outside arching.

You could, as an useful exercise, just use a piece of scrap wood.

[Sean Couch]

I got the back flattened after redoing the center joint. I started flattening on Saturday about 18 hours after gluing the joint. I knew my joint was not at 90 degrees, but it was such a nice light tight fit that I didn’t want to screw it up by trying to make it a 90 and decided that the lesser of the two evils was spending more time getting it flat.

My joint was a bit over 90 so I had about one millimeter to take off at the edges. I didn’t want to use my hand plane because I am a sissy and was too scared to mess it up as I don’t have much extra material to play around with. Anyway, I flattened it by sanding on my granite stone. When I stopped working for the day, I had a little left to do in the center to get down to the glue joint.

I didn’t work on it yesterday, but picked up where I left off today. Interestingly, in the course of 2 days, my little cup turned into a bow. Either the plate was not completely dry on Saturday, or the change in humidity affected the plate. Either way, it made it easier to get it flat.

So I got the back flat, drilled the locating pin holes, scribed the rib profile, drew the edge overhang, rough cut it out, and did the profile of the edge to just outside the pencil line. Since this is my second go at the center joint, and I had already cut away some material, it was a pretty close fit on the blank:

Hopefully that sap pocket doesn’t show through to the outside after arching:

[Sean Couch]

7 minutes ago, Andreas Preuss said:

You could, as a useful exercise, just use a piece of scrap wood.

Right on, it can’t hurt to try it. I have some old pine in the basement that would work for giving it a try. It is some old shelving that came out of my bedroom closet. It is pretty clear and has to be 40 to 50 years old, if not older.

[Sean Couch]

I didn’t work on the violin yesterday, got caught up researching varnish. Wow, that is quite the rabbit hole to go down. At the rate I am progressing, I have plenty of time to figure it out. 

I am working on the rough arching of the back plate. I think I like carving the maple better than the spruce. The spruce is like carving cold butter, I like how the maple has more resistance. I feel more in control when working with it. I did most of the work with my finger planes. I do have one plane that is large, so maybe a palm plane? I used that to hog off some initial material.

Anyway, here are a couple pictures. I still have a bunch of work to do in the c-bouts, but it is coming along. Hopefully I have enough thickness in the center. I think I may have cut too much off my wedges before gluing them together. Right now, I have about 15.8mm at the center.

 

[Sean Couch]

Slowly buy surely making progress.

[MikeC]

Looks good,  I like the figure in that maple.  

[Sean Couch]

On 5/9/2024 at 8:45 PM, MikeC said:

Looks good,  I like the figure in that maple.  

Thanks. The maple is nice. Hopefully I don’t ruin some nice wood. lol.

I think I need to make or order some toothed plane blades for my finger planes. The maple isn’t tearing out horribly, but I would think the toothed blades would speed up my progress a bit.

[Sean Couch]

The pictures don’t show much change, but I took away quite a bit of wood to try to remove the fullness in the upper and lower bouts and get more recurve. The ledge on the upper and lower bought is about 15mm wide and about 10mm in the c-bouts. Ledge thickness is still a bit over 4.5 mm. I am 2 to 3 mm away from my templates. I basically have to force myself to make the recurve. For some reason my eyes and hands want to create the opposite. lol

Seems like it is a bit of a slow go, but I really don’t have anything to compare it with, so I just plod along.

 

[Mike Atkins]

I saw your bench thread! Reading through I'm sure it was a daunting idea to re-do your joint on the back plate but you definitely made a significant improvement with the joint! Nice job!

I too have a hard time with corners, particularly starting from a form rather than a poster, and even with a poster all of those corners are worn off so it's super hard to tell what they should look like. But your doing it, and it's really a challenging thing to do so kudos!

[Sean Couch]

1 hour ago, Mike Atkins said:

I saw your bench thread! Reading through I'm sure it was a daunting idea to re-do your joint on the back plate but you definitely made a significant improvement with the joint! Nice job!

I too have a hard time with corners, particularly starting from a form rather than a poster, and even with a poster all of those corners are worn off so it's super hard to tell what they should look like. But your doing it, and it's really a challenging thing to do so kudos!

Thanks for the encouragement, this whole project has been a daunting process but I am glad I started it. I haven’t had a challenging project like this since making knives 25 years ago. That lasted for about 10 years before I called it quits. I turned a hobby into a job and ended up hating it.

Yeah, corners are weird. That is an area I need to think about and research more before I start violin #2. I think I need to do what you are doing now and basically start fresh for the next one. Starting with a clean slate and having a little bit of experience will be nice.

[Mike Atkins]

10 minutes ago, Sean Couch said:

Yeah, corners are weird. That is an area I need to think about and research more before I start violin #2.

Yeah, a good resource if you want would be to look at the poster for the "Messiah" which is a relatively new looking strad violin so it has un-worn corners. Or any of David Sora's videos detailing the corners, but having something printed like a template/poster might help so you can work with it right in front of you.

[Sean Couch]

I made an error right out of the gates. I ordered my form and templates off of eBay so I don’t even know what my starting point is supposed to be. That doesn’t excuse my long corners, if I put my template on my rib garland, I can see my mistakes. I can’t honestly tell you why I didn’t check them when I was carving the corner blocks. Either the excitement of a new project got to me or I had a senior moment, or a combination of both. Hehe

I spent some time with the SVG files from the “making the violin” website so I think I have a set of drawings that “should” be good to go. The raw SVG files were out of scale for me. I think the author used 90 dpi instead of 96 so depending on what you use to open the files, the scale could be wrong.

My neighbor is a member of a local “makers guild” so I have access to a laser cutter. I may go that route also, or use your drawing and make the form by hand. I have a bunch of options and nothing but time, so I am all set.