Top Off — Post Still Standing

[Brad Dorsey]

This is a first for me.

 

I just took the top off this old violin and the post is still standing.  I haven’t tried to break it free, but I have unintentionally touched it a few times.  I’m pretty sure it’s not glued, because I see no traces of glue at either end of the post, and because the post was installed by a nationally-known restorer/sound adjuster whose name would be familiar to many of you.  My guess is that the old dust and crud that always accumulates in old instruments, perhaps mixed with humidity and small fragments of glue that have flaked off the many interior repairs, spontaneously created a weak adhesive sufficient to keep the post in position.

I expect that I could break it free quite easily, but I have decided to leave it in place.  The violin’s owner loves its sound, so I want the post to be in the same position after I reglue the top as it was before I removed it.  If I can glue the top back on without dislodging the post, I will be saved the trouble of trying to put the post back where it was.

Has this happened to anyone else here?  (Without the post being obviously glued)

Does it make sense to try to keep it standing?

[Blank face]

The splinter at the top of the post indicates that there’s some glue involved, maybe the inner surface was glue seized for some reason, and wetting the post caused it to stick? 

It would be nearly impossible to get the top back exactly at the same place, without moving the post, an attempt might even cause some damage. So I would remove the post, maybe with a drop of water to solve the connection.

[Michael Darnton]

I say knock it down, start over. :-)

[Wood Butcher]

Certainly, over years, a lot of rosin dust can get inside the body, so this may be enough to lightly hold it in place.

Why does the lower block have a large scorch mark on it?

[Spelman]

This might be a useless suggestion, but could you put a little mark where the post currently is (trace around it with pencil?) and then remove it? Put it back on the mark when you reinstall the post?

[M Alpert]

I'm still standing, yeah yeah yeah

[Aston4]

2 hours ago, Spelman said:

This might be a useless suggestion, but could you put a little mark where the post currently is (trace around it with pencil?) and then remove it? Put it back on the mark when you reinstall the post?

I made my luthier put marks where I needed the sound post to be. He always thought the post should be somewhere else.  Thus began my journey into learning how to make and set soundpost.

[Brad Dorsey]

4 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

…Why does the lower block have a large scorch mark on it?

After you asked, I looked closely at that black spot.  It does indeed appear to be charred.  I cannot think of any reason why that should be.

[Andreas Preuss]

I remember having opened a violin and the sound post was still standing. What I remember there was a sort of dirt-dust-colophany mixture holding it in place. It was really dirty inside.

[Marty Kasprzyk]

Is the post's bottom end unusually close to the center?

[Don Noon]

Rosin dust, or perhaps the maker sized the plates with glue.  In any case, I can't see how you could possibly tell if the post in the reassembled violin is fitting properly if it is not reset in the normal manner. by feel.. which means you need it loose to start with.  And I'd want clean surfaces on the posts and plates too.

I don't know if anyone else does this, but I like to apply a thin rosin/alcohol coat to the ends of the post (letting it dry) before finally inserting the post, to minimize the chance of accidental slippage later.  I doubt it would be enough to keep the post in place after a plate is removed, though.

[Brad Dorsey]

4 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

Is the post's bottom end unusually close to the center?

I’d say that the post is two to three millimeters closer to the center than usual, based on the bridge position

[David Burgess]

20 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Why does the lower block have a large scorch mark on it?

A swath of burning sage was affixed in the end button hole, to purge the demons inside the violin. It's a common practice for violins in need of an exorcism.... which is most of 'em.

[Barry J. Griffiths]

17 hours ago, Brad Dorsey said:

After you asked, I looked closely at that black spot.  It does indeed appear to be charred.  I cannot think of any reason why that should be.

Just a possibility: perhaps an older tungsten inspection light was dropped in and left in one spot way too long. 

[Michael Darnton]

Regarding the wisdom of thinking it's in a magical place, I have seen violins with as many as four (!!!!) pencilled circles marking the One True Location and have yet to arrive at a post position sitting on any of them. The best spots moves, that's just how it is.

[Brad Dorsey]

5 hours ago, David Burgess said:

…violins in need of an exorcism.... which is most of 'em.

After all, it is called “the Devil’s instrument.”

[Andreas Preuss]

16 hours ago, Don Noon said:

don't know if anyone else does this, but I like to apply a thin rosin/alcohol coat to the ends of the post (letting it dry) before finally inserting the post, to minimize the chance of accidental slippage later. 

I use chalk for the same purpose. But I think the slippage of sound posts is a myth unless the violin receives a pretty strong shock. 

[jezzupe]

On 4/5/2024 at 6:43 PM, Brad Dorsey said:

After you asked, I looked closely at that black spot.  It does indeed appear to be charred.  I cannot think of any reason why that should be.

My guess is that the maker hit it with a torch in order to "heat treat" the pin hole in order to make it less prone to honing

Which seems pretty nutso, but, heat/flame treating is a "thing" and it can bolster local wood strength and because of that maybe he had some radical idea that it would help?

[Wood Butcher]

On 4/6/2024 at 6:37 PM, David Burgess said:

A swath of burning sage was affixed in the end button hole, to purge the demons inside the violin. It's a common practice for violins in need of an exorcism.... which is most of 'em.

I think burnt sage might leave a nice smell too, lord knows some peoples cases absolutely reek when they are opened.

I once upset a gypsy, who was trying to sell me some lucky heather. I pointed out that if it was lucky, they would certainly want to keep it themselves. Some indignant muttering followed, but I was never sure if I was cursed, or not.
Next day, I stubbed my toe on the bathroom door frame, so the possibility exists. I must get some sage, and burn it now, just to be on the safe side.