Violin Worth Fixing ??

[Les Keen]

Hi, hopefully someone can give me their thoughts if my violin is worthy of fixing and re-stringing or not. I’ve had the violin for over 30 years but now thinking to sell it as I can’t play anymore.  A heavy box in storage caused the neck to break off so I wonder if I can fix this and what glue to use. I could take the violin to a luthier but wondering if it’s worth it. 
Also, any idea where it might have been made like Germany, French or ??? It has a name inside but I believe that most violin tags are fake? 

[Les Keen]

Here the neck broke from the body. I should have had the violin in a wood box to protect it better. 

[Brad Dorsey]

4 hours ago, Les Keen said:

...I wonder if I can fix this and what glue to use...

The only glue to use on something like this is hot hide glue, which can be tricky to use.  If you are not familiar with its use, you should definitely not try to fix the violin yourself.  It's pretty easy for an experienced luthier to reglue this.  But if you try to do it, you will most likely turn a simple job into a mess that will need to be undone before it can be redone properly, greatly reducing the violin's value.

[FiddleDoug]

I’ll second what Brad said, and add that if you try to repair it, and it goes wrong, the cost to correct it would be way more than if you had taken it to a luthier in the first place.

[Aston4]

Show a picture of the tag.

Looks like a nice old German fiddle to my completely untrained eye, someone else here knows better.

I bet a good luthier could make it sound so nice.  It is worth fixing, would be a shame to let that nice instrument go to waste.  The neck reglue is an easy fix for a luthier, and cheaper than you can do yourself by the time you buy proper hide glue and clamp.

A hundred years from now, people will be sad at how badly we are treating these old German violins, and how many are being wasted.

[Les Keen]

Thank you everyone for your comments and helpful advice.

I will get if fixed properly and hope for a good sounding violin again. My arthritis makes it hard to play anymore and I just have to fix it up as it bothers me to know.

Here is the tag inside

[Aston4]

Comparing it to other Farotti Celeste photos on the Tarisio web site... maybe it is real?  Maybe wait for someone who actually knows something to chime in, as I know nothing.  Less than nothing.

[Les Keen]

Good question Aston4, my uncle was stationed in Germany in the 60’s and I ended up with this violin. I never really thought about it except it sounded nice and projected well. 
I do really like the f holes but what do you guys think about the varnish, can it be cleaned somewhat also?

[Mat Roop]

yes!...It can be cleaned easily... by someone who knows what they are doing.

I do such "usual" violins regularly, and cleaning is a matter of the right materials, and lots of gentle patience. Then I polish but not in the usual way... I rub (with my finger) the entire violin ( section at time) with violin varnish of the appropriate color, then immediately wipe it all off. That seals any open wood, and fills cracks and leaves virtually no varnish on the surface... it is like a polish that dries and stays.  Use absolutely no abrasives!

The result is surprisingly significant and leaves all of the history visible but more subdued..

[Les Keen]

Thank you Mat, very interesting indeed!

I appreciate all the help and hope to bring this violin back to life soon.

 If we repair the neck, give it a good cleaning and setup a new bridge and strings, someone will hopefully get good usage out of it. Take care everyone.

[Randall The Restorer]

On 2/19/2024 at 6:07 PM, Mat Roop said:

yes!...It can be cleaned easily... by someone who knows what they are doing.

I do such "usual" violins regularly, and cleaning is a matter of the right materials, and lots of gentle patience. Then I polish but not in the usual way... I rub (with my finger) the entire violin ( section at time) with violin varnish of the appropriate color, then immediately wipe it all off. That seals any open wood, and fills cracks and leaves virtually no varnish on the surface... it is like a polish that dries and stays.  Use absolutely no abrasives!

The result is surprisingly significant and leaves all of the history visible but more subdued..

Hey Canuck. I know Wyoming, Ontario!! I was just looking at a sailboat on Kijiji that's near you. 

The last time I visited my cousins in Algonac, Michigan, I drove near your town on the way to The Bluewater Bridge.

Mat, you had better be wearing gloves or "Gloves In A Bottle" lotion when you do that varnish polishing trick. We don't need anymore members checking out early because of some avoidable chemical poisoning. 

Maybe we'll meet in person some day. Until then, work safe.

Yours truly,

Randy O'Malley

Mississauga, Ontario

 

 

[Michael Richwine]

On 2/19/2024 at 8:03 AM, Aston4 said:

Comparing it to other Farotti Celeste photos on the Tarisio web site... maybe it is real?  Maybe wait for someone who actually knows something to chime in, as I know nothing.  Less than nothing.

I can't say I know much, but I looked at the same pictures. The violin looks questionable to me, but has enough details that match up with the "real thing" that it would be foolish  not to have it examined with better pictures at least by someone who can definitely rule it out, and if they can't rule it out, have it examined in hand by someone familiar with the Bisiach school.

[Les Keen]

Hi Michael, Aston4 and everyone.

I’ve been busy the last while and read your post. I have know idea but the varnish has a nice orangey look to it as my luthier gave me a mixture he uses for cleaning. He’s gone now for a month overseas.

But, I have a question if I may ask if it normal as a maker to have the neck set into place to angle a bit to the E string. This neck if glued in the same spot does tip a little.

When he gets back I would like to be informed as what is best practice. 

Thank you again

[Michael Richwine]

It has been a practice in various schools of thought to tip the board down toward the E, to make bowing easier, and with some people, Up to level the strings, depending on the maker's and the player's preference. There are plausible sounding arguments for both practices.

If I were you, I'd still focus on getting a WELL-informed, hands - on opinion about the authenticity of that violin. It's not that big a chance, but it's enough money if it turns out to be what if MAY be, that I wouldn't do anything further with it until I had a good idea what it really is. It's pretty easy  for someone who knows what they are doing to say "no worries" or at least, "needs further study". "No worries" is the easiest. People on this forum could probably reach a consensus if you could provide proper pictures and accurate measurements.

The problem is that instruments by this maker look superficially a LOT like Saxon instruments of very modest value, but are, in truth, pretty valuable, and it takes a good, close look at significant details by someone familiar with them to tell the difference. You're not providing  yourself much help so far.

[Blank face]

13 hours ago, Les Keen said:

Hi Michael, Aston4 and everyone.

I’ve been busy the last while and read your post. I have know idea but the varnish has a nice orangey look to it as my luthier gave me a mixture he uses for cleaning. He’s gone now for a month overseas.

But, I have a question if I may ask if it normal as a maker to have the neck set into place to angle a bit to the E string. This neck if glued in the same spot does tip a little.

When he gets back I would like to be informed as what is best practice. 

Thank you again

It’s a nice Markneukirchen/Schönbach made cottage industry violin with a Fahrkarte. Glueing back the neck correctly is definitely not a DIY thing, this would cause more costs than use and could ruin the instrument in the worst case.

On 2/20/2024 at 12:07 AM, Mat Roop said:

yes!...It can be cleaned easily... by someone who knows what they are doing.

I do such "usual" violins regularly, and cleaning is a matter of the right materials, and lots of gentle patience. Then I polish but not in the usual way... I rub (with my finger) the entire violin ( section at time) with violin varnish of the appropriate color, then immediately wipe it all off. That seals any open wood, and fills cracks and leaves virtually no varnish on the surface... it is like a polish that dries and stays.  Use absolutely no abrasives!

The result is surprisingly significant and leaves all of the history visible but more subdued..

I would say a restorer should avoid to add any additional varnish or polish as long as there is enough original present. 

[Les Keen]

Thanks Blank face, Michael and everyone else. I’m still waiting for my Luthier to arrive back but in the meantime I have been cleaning the varnish over time.

This varnish seems to have a tinge of Red in it or maybe it just happens with age etc. I have photo of my careful cleaning. Also I see tool marks on scroll and thought I would show the side with arching. It’s quite high compared to my other violin, anyway it’s interesting to me.

 
Guys It’s hard to get all the Rosen and dirt off the surface without spending a lot of time for sure. I’ll just ask if you think this is good as I don’t want to harm the varnish. Some areas is smooth honey like, but I think I’ll leave it as good to be safe. I measured the violin and it is:

Lob 14.125”

upper 6.5”

center 4.5”

lower 8”

* these measurements are following the arching

Thank you all for any comment to improve the varnish, preserve and protect. Leave as is??

thank you

[Les Keen]

I also wanted to mention that the other luthier I dropped by and got a repair price and he wants $850 to repair the neck and a new setup.

When I asked about the violin he said he wasn’t qualified to say but just that he was interested in buying it after. He just stated that it was a very interesting violin. 

Do you think the $850 is a fair quote?

After I get it fixed I’m hoping someone here can give me an idea of its value.

Appreciate your help and thoughts as I know your all busy.

[FiddleDoug]

Reset the neck, new bridge( needed because the neck angle could be slightly different), pegs, strings, etc. $850 is a little higher than what I would charge, but I’m low overhead, so, not an awful price. Value when finished- maybe $1000.

[GeorgeH]

On 6/9/2024 at 1:53 AM, Les Keen said:

When I asked about the violin he said he wasn’t qualified to say but just that he was interested in buying it after. He just stated that it was a very interesting violin. 

Why not just sell it to him as-is?

Violin prices for the same violin can vary greatly by dealer, location, and method of sale.

[Les Keen]

Thanks and I appreciate all your expertise you have given to me. I honestly thought that the violin would be worth more than $1k, but, I’m usually wrong on the value of things like this. Seems it’s maybe something I can just hold on to and give to my nieces kids.  
Ok I thank everyone for helping and it has been very interesting. I really like the site and learned so much just to read here all the different makers and talented people. It is an art to be proud of guys.

[HoGo]

I think you could do well if you sell it on ebay as is. There are luthiers who buy such potentially nice player instruments, restore them and sell with some profit. This one doesn't need all that much work and body is in good shape and it appears that pegs, tailpiece etc are with it. You also might ask at different violin shops how much they would charge. Those $850 seem a bit much to me (but I'm not in US) for resetting neck that is already cleanly separated and perhaps fingerboard planing, does that include new pegs, bridge, strings or bushing of holes or what?

My philosophy for fiddle like this would be use the original parts if possible (just clean up pegholes and clean pegs with minimal wood loss), if bridge is not low (it looks OK) or otherwise damaged. For me best case scenario would require just new strings.

I would certainly buy it for reasonable price were I near you.

[Blank face]

8 hours ago, Les Keen said:

I honestly thought that the violin would be worth more than $1k, but, I’m usually wrong on the value of things like this.

A common misconception while wondering "What is it worth" is considering the sale price in fully restored and playable condition at a retail shop, which also includes VAT, other taxes, costs for rooms and restorations, years of warranty and service. This has not much to do with what you can get in the actual state as a private seller.

Actually I would think you could get normally less than 10% of this price, and this might be what one can expect at an auction. If your luthier is offering more the best deal would be to accept it happily.