Bow ID

[baroquecello]

I know very little about bows. What is your opinion on this one? The stick is round, of a very dark red, very fine pored wood, has lost some of its camber, but is otherwise straight. The frog is as visible, the metal looks like silver. The bow has a massive amount of hair on it that I feel makes it hard to judge the playing characteristics.

[violinsRus]

Cello bow? I see a cello in the background. What is the weight?

[baroquecello]

6 minutes ago, violinsRus said:

Cello bow? I see a cello in the background. What is the weight?

Yes, a cello bow. I don't have a scale here. It feels average in weight.

[fiddlecollector]

Looks interesting, enormous chamfers on the head. Looks like there has been some remounting of the silver  going on,look at the large gaps down the sides of the heel plate.

[nathan slobodkin]

Straight  on side view of frog please?

[fiddlecollector]

Can you take a photo of the chamfers on the back of the head from behind the head?

[baroquecello]

[Blank face]

I would rather doubt that the frog belongs to the stick: the fit of the metal slide is bad, and such long cracks running along the upper edge are usually pointing that the wood was split of due to this misfit (stick wider than the slide). As Fiddlecollector pointed out seems the silver heel also  a later addition, not sure about the ferrule. At least the actual photos are giving this impression.

The head looks interesting, in my eyes some sort of Tourte copy or "Swanhead" model, which was made by various shops and bowmakers. This wide chamfers might give some clue, as long as they are original and not the result of another overworking action.

[fiddlecollector]

BF im wanting a photo of the chamfers , i 'm wondering if its an optical illusion and the whole back of the head is rounded off at the corners or totally rounded off. I can easily believe the whole frog has been  remounted badly forwhatever reason without addressing the frog damage ,including the underslide.

[martin swan]

Second guessing fiddlecollector ...

This particular swan head model with very pronounced chamfers makes one think of Peccatte school, particularly Dominique Peccatte and Joseph Henry, but these would be entirely rounded at the rear of the head ...

The chamfers on this bow appear to be stopped as they travel to the rear of the head but it's not entirely clear.

The frog is clearly not a Peccatte school frog, and if I were to put money on it I would say the stick isn't either, but it's nodding heavily in that direction.

[Blank face]

Another oddity is that the capsule of the adjuster button has two pins; or is that common at some schools?

It would be interesting to see a better and more detailed photo of the metal under slide, too.

[fiddlecollector]

Apart from the makers martin mentioned also John Dodd made some with large chamfers in the swan neck style which look very like the bow stick in question.

https://www.bcu.ac.uk/conservatoire/research/hic/the-collection/string-bow/10-1

 

Peccatte swan neck bows are broader from the side and dont have as long a nose. I have seen one or two Henry's similar though.

[baroquecello]

The back of the head is not rounded, but has very pronounced chamfers. The centre facet on which the frog is mounted is broader than the other facets, like in the pictures of the John Dodd bow. In fact, I find the similarities to the Dodd bow striking. So I'd say there is reason to show this to an expert in person

[fiddlecollector]

Another indicator is the length of the bow, Dodd cello bows are often longer than the violin bows.

[martin swan]

5 hours ago, baroquecello said:

The back of the head is not rounded, but has very pronounced chamfers. The centre facet on which the frog is mounted is broader than the other facets, like in the pictures of the John Dodd bow. In fact, I find the similarities to the Dodd bow striking. So I'd say there is reason to show this to an expert in person

The Dodd bow in the link has a single spine to the back of the head, so both the chamfers meet in the middle. In your bow they seem to be exaggerated but f=conventional, leaving a flat surface at the back of the head - is that right?

[fiddlecollector]

4 minutes ago, martin swan said:

The Dodd bow in the link has a single spine to the back of the head, so both the chamfers meet in the middle. In your bow they seem to be exaggerated but f=conventional, leaving a flat surface at the back of the head - is that right?

I know what you mean Martin but i dont think that one does . I think it has a very narrow middle facet down the back of the head.

[baroquecello]

3 minutes ago, martin swan said:

The Dodd bow in the link has a single spine to the back of the head, so both the chamfers meet in the middle. In your bow they seem to be exaggerated but f=conventional, leaving a flat surface at the back of the head - is that right?

That is right, Martin! If the centre spine on the back of the head is standard for a Dodd bow of this type, then Dodd can be excluded. 

[baroquecello]

2 minutes ago, fiddlecollector said:

I know what you mean Martin but i dont think that one does . I think it has a very narrow middle facet down the back of the head.

right!

[fiddlecollector]

2 minutes ago, baroquecello said:

That is right, Martin! If the centre spine on the back of the head is standard for a Dodd bow of this type, then Dodd can be excluded. 

Im leaning towards a John or James Dodd with a repurposed /remounted Tubbs frog and button but could be wrong ,as English bows arent really my thing.

[baroquecello]

Does this look similar to you?

[fiddlecollector]

Yes also silmilar to yours. It probably hadan ivory frog andbutton originally. When i mention Tubbs im looking at the very wide width of what the original heelplate on the frog probably looked like.  The pearl eye looks a little small for a Tubbs (or Dodd)cello frog but it could have originally had no eye (common with Tubbs) and its been added later. Im only going by what i can see in your photos. What is the length of the bow with and without the button??

[fiddlecollector]

Also can you clarify, if the chamfers on the back of the head come to a point in the middle or is there a narrow central facet (confused by your replies to me and Martin.)

[fiddlecollector]

An fx tourte for reference, it is fully rounded at the back of the head.

 

[baroquecello]

47 minutes ago, fiddlecollector said:

Also can you clarify, if the chamfers on the back of the head come to a point in the middle or is there a narrow central facet (confused by your replies to me and Martin.)

there is a narrow central facet.

[Blank face]

A top hat mortice could give a clue either (though these can be altered to a regular mortice).