Viola d'amore setup problem

[Bo Pontoppidan]

I have a viola d'amore on loan from the local university with the intend to play the Telemann concerto for viola d'amore and oboe d'amore. Before I got it it was looked over by a luthier who among other things made a new bridge. 

I am having some problems playing this instrument (apart from getting used to the tuning). The strings are very high over the fingerboard which means that when a string is fingered I have to bow very close to the bridge in order to avoids touching the neighboring strings. The top string is 5 mm above the fingerboard, the lowest string 7 mm. Some of the middle strings are 8-9 mm above. It is difficult to photograph, but I have attached a few pictures. 

What are your thoughts? Should I ask him to lower the bridge? 

[deans]

As somebody who tinkers with these I understand your problem too well. It does sound like your strings are high. Having strings slightly lower than would be for a similar size viola should help. Just make sure that all the other parameters will allow it.  Make sure the fingerboard scoop is ok and also that you will still have bow clearance on the treble bout (looks like you are OK). Looks like your bridge shape is fine. Perhaps the neck settled a bit after the bridge was fitted put under tension. Are the sympathetics clearing the channel?

[Bo Pontoppidan]

I think this instrument really needs another fingerboard. Probably the luthier who carved the new bridge gave it the required curvature, but the fingerboard is too flat.

I am currently working on converting a Chinese viola I bought for the purpose into a 6 string d'amore. I am making a new neck and fingerboard for it. The head will be "inspired by" the Stradivarii  d'amore head with an extra middle wall. What would be an appropriate radius for the fingerboard? 38 mm? 

[jacobsaunders]

Bridge curvature on a d’amore is pretty critical. On the one side you need it round enough that you can play one string at a time, on the other hand it shouldn’t be too low or round that you crunch into the belly edge with the frog of the bow when you play the top string (or bottom one) That could be a reason why the strings are so high above the fingerboard. It could also make a difference if you are using 6 or 7 top strings. I learnt how diffucult d’amore bridges can be here

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/342252-it-never-rains-but-it-pours-albani-damore/

 

[Bo Pontoppidan]

Thank you for that link - I thought I had done a thorough search of the forum, but this one escaped me. A lot of interesting info there. And an impressive job on the restauration of that d'amore!

I guess I'll have to do some mock-up bridges to test the required curvature and height before I fit the new neck. 

I also plan to make the bridge myself - I will take your advise of placing the holes for the sympathetic strings after all is set up to get the height right.

[Mark Norfleet]

Do you have enough bow clearance as it is to not hit the middle bouts with your bow?

The bridge is certainly high and the bridge curve isn't quite right, but there's no point in trying to remedy that if you don't have plenty of bow clearance now.

[Bo Pontoppidan]

It is difficult to see in the pictures but the curve of the fingerboard is much flatter than the bridge curve. Clearing the bouts is not the problem - clearing the neighboring string is when the strings are fingered. 

The instrument in the pictures is not mine, so I am not going to do major changes to it. For the piece I am planning to play in the near future I need only 5 playing strings tuned in fourths. I have tried removing two strings and spreading the rest out on the bridge and that sort of works. Making a few string slots in the bridge seemed a minor change to do, but I didn't want to change the nut. The strings are thus in the 5 middle positions at the nut but spread out on the bridge, which looks kind of funny, but actually is not as strange to play on as I thought it would be. 

As mentioned I am converting a viola and I want to (try to) make sure there will not be similar problems here. (don't worry - it is a cheap Chinese instrument and the world will not miss it if I screw it up). I have the freedom to make the fingerboard and bridge curve as needed and even the possibility to set the neck angle differently if needed. So any suggestions on which curve/radius to use are much appreciated. 

I realise that this will be an ugly bastard instrument  

[jacobsaunders]

You should certainly make the fingerboard with the same curvature as the bridge

[Mark Caudle]

You could have a try to make this bridge work. First lower the action of the 2 outer strings to the absolute limit where they dont rattle on the fingerboard when you bow them open and stopped. Then work across from the outer strings towards the middle ones allowing the minimum clearance to sound one string at a time easily. I can see that at present there is more clearance on the middle strings than the upper ones in particular. I have been through this process many times with 6 and 7 string viols and you have to ignore the fingerboard curvature and once the height of the outer strings is established, concentrate only on equalising the clearance to bow the strings one at a time.

[Bo Pontoppidan]

Thank you for the advise. I will certainly match the fingerboard and bridge curve on my viola conversion. Regarding the d'amore in the pictures in my first post; if it were mine I might have a go at the bridge, but i have it on loan, so it is not an option. Besides I really think the main issue is the flat fingerboard (which I will definitely not touch on a loaner).  

I don't have an ebony fingerboard blank wide enough, so I will make it from maple. I'm thinking that the smart thing to do would be starting with a quite small radius (question is how small?). That would allow me to use the same wood for a board with larger radius if needed.

[Mark Norfleet]

10 minutes ago, Bo Pontoppidan said:

I really think the main issue is the flat fingerboard.

That certainly exacerbates the problem, but I expect the instrument would be much easier to play if the bridge was a reasonable height.   

[Bo Pontoppidan]

The old bridge is in the case and it was quite a lot lower, so perhaps I should talk to the owner and see if we can have a go at the bridge as you suggest. It is hardly playable as it is now anyway.

[Mark Norfleet]

7 minutes ago, Bo Pontoppidan said:

The old bridge is in the case and it was quite a lot lower, so perhaps I should talk to the owner and see if we can have a go at the bridge as you suggest. It is hardly playable as it is now anyway.

Make sure the fingerboard has longitudinally concave curve, otherwise there’s no point.  If it’s convex, that could be why the bridge is high, but I suspect it was left that way to be on the safe side or not having a good idea of what it should be.

[deans]

Is this one with flute as well, in E?  How are you tuning? 

[Bo Pontoppidan]

Yes, that's the one. I will tune F#, B, E, A, D. Once you get your head around the tuning in fourth it is really a lot easier to play this piece with that tuning compared to standard violin/viola tuning or the usual d'amore tuning A, D, A, D, F#, A, D. 

 

 

[Bo Pontoppidan]

My conversion of a Chinese viola to viola d'amore is progressing. I have made a new neck and head with a wall down the middle inspired by a Stradivari d'amore head, a maple fingerboard with a 38 mm radius and a matching tailpiece with fine tuners for the sympathetic strings. Now I am trying to figure out how to best make a bridge. I have been looking at all the d'amore bridges I could find online and the design differs quite a lot. I am a bit worried that just copying one of those will make the feet too wide for the viola body putting them outside the bas bar and sound post. So I was thinking that keeping the feet distance identical to the original bridge might be a better option? Something like this:

This is again inspired by a Strad design with some modifications - most notably I need to have the sympathetic strings located a bit higher because I will attach them to fine tuners below the tailpiece.

Any thoughts on this?

[jacobsaunders]

That looks feasable, you will find out what doesn't work afterwards