How does a break affect the value/playability of the bow?

[LilHobbit]

I am receiving a couple of bows in a trial today and one of them is said to have a crack in the middle of the stick that has been repaired.  My question is, with a good quality repair of this kind, would the crack automatically deem the bow as "trash" or how would it affect the value of the bow itself?  I have no doubt that this bow would sell for a decent amount of if it weren't for the repaired break.  If it is a quality repair, would this bow likely be able to be played successfully for an indefinite period of time or am I likely to have to deal with it breaking again in the near future (if I were to purchase it)?  How would it affect the playing of the bow?

Not being a luthier myself, I have no idea how a crack in the wood would even likely be repaired.  Wood glue?  Some sort of pin?  

More than happy to upload a picture once I have the bow in hand later today!  Meanwhile, would appreciate input on any of the above.

[martin swan]

I’m afraid this question can only be answered with reference to the specific crack. A little grain lift is a very different prospect from a repaired break, similarly a long crack along the grain is far less serious than one that ruptures the grain. 

[outofnames]

I’ll let the experts comment, but I can tell you that I bought my bow knowing there was a repair.  My luthier showed it to me because I’d never have seen it.  Don’t know when it was repaired but I’ve been playing with it for about six years now.

[GeorgeH]

5 hours ago, martin swan said:

I’m afraid this question can only be answered with reference to the specific crack.

Yes, and also because effect on value and effect on playability are completely different questions. A repair that has a negligible effect on playability could have an enormous effect on the value.

@outofnames, it looks like you have a crack in the tip plate that needs to be repaired.

 

[outofnames]

14 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

Yes, and also because effect on value and effect on playability are completely different questions. A repair that has a negligible effect on playability could have an enormous effect on the value.

@outofnames, it looks like you have a crack in the tip plate that needs to be repaired.

 

You spotted that??  I’m impressed.  Yes, the tip plate broke after I knocked against my music stand while I had the bow out for trial.  I felt awful about that.  Fortunately I’d already made the decision to buy it.  My luthier didn’t think it was a big deal and repaired it.  It’s been rehaired at least once since then so I don’t know how he works around it exactly.

[martin swan]

2 hours ago, outofnames said:

I’ll let the experts comment, but I can tell you that I bought my bow knowing there was a repair.  My luthier showed it to me because I’d never have seen it.  Don’t know when it was repaired but I’ve been playing with it for about six years now.

It seems to have quite a large insert as a repair to a blown out cheek (caused by a clumsy rehair).

Is that right?

[outofnames]

3 minutes ago, martin swan said:

It seems to have quite a large insert as a repair to a blown out cheek (caused by a clumsy rehair).

Is that right?

Don’t know, whatever the nature of the damage and repair…it happened before I bought it.

My luthier’s assessment of the bow before I bought it from him was that it was a very nice bow but, with the crack and repair, much of the value has been lost.  His advice was to buy it if I enjoyed playing with it not for any other reason.

After trying a dozen or more, this one just clicked for me.  I don’t plan to replace it.

[Rue]

I think it's absolutely fine to buy anything repaired, for a discount, as long as one is okay with the repair.

[uguntde]

I have seen many good bows with a head repair, more recent ones with a very thin spline probably made of ebony, others tried to hide it as good as possible. Generally I think, bows should be made with a stabilising cross-grain spline in the first place, just as some violin makers like to strenghtem the area under the sound post.

[M Alpert]

On 1/26/2024 at 3:25 PM, outofnames said:

You spotted that??  I’m impressed.  Yes, the tip plate broke after I knocked against my music stand while I had the bow out for trial.  I felt awful about that.  Fortunately I’d already made the decision to buy it.  My luthier didn’t think it was a big deal and repaired it.  It’s been rehaired at least once since then so I don’t know how he works around it exactly.

Sometimes when the tip plate is cracked at the mortise, and glued, it may keep fine for many years. On the other hand, as  I think@GeorgeH and @martin swan implied, a tip plug that's a bit too tight can break not only the tip plate but also the cheek of the head, especially if the tip plate itself is weakened by a crack.

I always recommend to replace the tip plate when it is cracked at the mortise. Of course, sometimes budget doesn't allow, or occasionally, the value of the bow is not worth it.

27 minutes ago, uguntde said:

I have seen many good bows with a head repair, more recent ones with a very thin spline probably made of ebony, others tried to hide it as good as possible. Generally I think, bows should be made with a stabilising cross-grain spline in the first place, just as some violin makers like to strenghtem the area under the sound post.

This is a good point, but one that is quite controversial in the trade, and has been discussed many times on MN and elsewhere. Generally I believe it is agreed that a head spline devalues the bow by 75-90% (some say devalues the stick completely, leaving only the value of the frog/adjuster). They can play just fine and last well too, but there is uncertainty about it, as splined repairs also fail (I have a few in my togetaroundtoit boxes).

Which explains why no maker in his right mind would do that to a new bow (even if it is in most cases strengthening the head...)