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Moving chinrest question


Daviolin

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By "that black line in the middle," I assume you mean the saddle.  I think it is preferable if the chin rest does not contact any part of the saddle that projects beyond the top edge, because the chin rest does not seat on the saddle as well as it does on the edge.  And I have found that it is generally possible to locate the chin rest so it's not on the saddle.

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I'm sure that we'll get varying opinions on this one.  There are often so many cracks around the saddle potentially due to chinrest placement, and saddle fitting issues.   I rarely use a chinrest as it is, without any modifications to the fit.  Creating an angle over/away from the saddle seems common.

I prefer over tailpiece chinrests, so that (if there is saddle contact) the pressure is even and hopefully over the block.  Pressure on one side of the saddle might be problematic over time.

Are modern makers extending lower blocks for chinrest support still?

I'm always alarmed at how far in some people place chinrests, way too  far onto the top.  We've all seen lovely clamp edge dents.

Examples from the internet with contact:

Teller Flesh violin chinrest - Guillaume Kessler Lutherie d'Art

Kaufman Model Violin Chinrest

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13 hours ago, lvlagneto said:

I rarely use a tailpiece as it is, without any modifications to the fit.

Did you really mean to say that you rarely use a tailpiece without modifications to fit, or was that supposed to be about chinrests?

While I do occasionally modify tailpieces, I also think of this as being rather uncommon.

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21 hours ago, Brad Dorsey said:

By "that black line in the middle," I assume you mean the saddle.  I think it is preferable if the chin rest does not contact any part of the saddle that projects beyond the top edge, because the chin rest does not seat on the saddle as well as it does on the edge.  And I have found that it is generally possible to locate the chin rest so it's not on the saddle.

18 hours ago, lvlagneto said:

I'm sure that we'll get varying opinions on this one.  There are often so many cracks around the saddle potentially due to chinrest placement, and saddle fitting issues.   I rarely use a tailpiece as it is, without any modifications to the fit.  Creating an angle over/away from the saddle seems common.

I prefer over tailpiece chinrests, so that (if there is saddle contact) the pressure is even and hopefully over the block.  Pressure on one side of the saddle might be problematic over time.

Are modern makers extending lower blocks for chinrest support still?

I'm always alarmed at how far in some people place chinrests, way too  far onto the top.  We've all seen lovely clamp edge dents.

Examples from the internet with contact:

Teller Flesh violin chinrest - Guillaume Kessler Lutherie d'Art

Kaufman Model Violin Chinrest

I have a side mounted ebony. So as long as it doesn't get to the saddle, it's fine? Or is it best to give it some margin?

I find that my violin sounds better without chinrest, more open. Does that mean I probably should change to an over the tailpiece boxwood chinrest?

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2 hours ago, D27 said:

...So as long as it doesn't get to the saddle, it's fine?...

Probably.

 

2 hours ago, D27 said:

...I find that my violin sounds better without chinrest, more open. Does that mean I probably should change to an over the tailpiece boxwood chinrest?

I don't know.  The only way you can find out what sounds best is by trying it.  I like the over-the-chinrest type because it clamps on the sturdy block rather than the flimsy rib.  But I think the general consensus of this forum is that the over-the-chinrest type doesn't sound as good.

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7 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Did you really mean to say that you rarely use a tailpiece without modifications to fit, or was that supposed to be about chinrests?

Sorry, I meant chinrest.  I was just thinking about the over-the-tailpiece chinrests when typing.  

I rarely get way with slapping a chinrest onto an instrument without modifications.

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13 minutes ago, Brad Dorsey said:

I don't know.  The only way you can find out what sounds best is by trying it.  I like the over-the-chinrest type because it clamps on the sturdy block rather than the flimsy rib.  But I think the general consensus of this forum is that the over-the-chinrest type doesn't sound as good.

You mean over-the-tailpiece, right?

People online tend to agree that over-the-tailpiece sounds better and seems like soloists and super expensive violins all have it.

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3 hours ago, D27 said:

I have a side mounted ebony. So as long as it doesn't get to the saddle, it's fine? Or is it best to give it some margin?

I find that my violin sounds better without chinrest, more open. Does that mean I probably should change to an over the tailpiece boxwood chinrest?

I don't really use side mount, so I don't want to give advice on what placement is best.

You should be able to find an over-the-tailpiece chinrest that is comparable.

It's common for people to say that their instrument sounds better with no chinrest, but usually because the sound is going straight to their head.  If you search this forum, there should be plenty of topics related to no chinrest.

 

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15 minutes ago, lvlagneto said:

It's common for people to say that their instrument sounds better with no chinrest, but usually because the sound is going straight to their head.

Straight to the head? How so? I've tried in both normal playing position and with the violin slightly further away without contact with my chin. Also without the chinrest, the open E-string has more sustain after I lift the bow, maybe other strings as well, but the E is easier to notice the difference.

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Here we go again... IMHO violins sound better with side mounted chin rests away from saddle and positioned more towards outer edge and the clamps lightly tightened. This finding was unfortunate for me as we all know the best way to clamp a violin is the bottom/center block. 

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21 minutes ago, germain said:

Here we go again... IMHO violins sound better with side mounted chin rests away from saddle and positioned more towards outer edge and the clamps lightly tightened. This finding was unfortunate for me as we all know the best way to clamp a violin is the bottom/center block. 

I'll try moving it more to the side, I've been using it pretty close to the saddle.

But if side mounted usually sounds best, why over-the-tail piece seems to be the top choice?

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6 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:

I guess clamping onto the end blocks possessing less risk than clamping on ribs when humidity is changing?

 It does make sense, haven't thought about it. That reminds me, is this serious, or was already patched in the past? Found it under the chinrest,

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Many years ago I worked hard on the comfort of my jaw and the sound of my violin

Dozens of materials and styles were tested for chinrests and tailpieces. My personal opinion is that boxwood has the best sound, and the position of chinrests is mostly related to how it sounds to your ears. You can try using the violin as a cello.

The one on the left is called Hill style, and heifetz uses it....

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37 minutes ago, jefcostello said:

The one on the left is called Hill style, and heifetz uses it....

I’m betting he doesn’t…

To the original question, I don’t think it really matters if a chinrest touches the saddle, so long as it fits the area and isn’t applying pressure in a way that would force it out.  It’s also fairly easy to alter most chinrests to fit the saddle area or just remove the material that comes in contact with it if you need to move it to the right for your comfort.

As for which style sounds better, it depends on the instrument.  If I have a choice, I prefer over the tailpiece versions that fit well in order to reduce the risk of damage and rib buckling.

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1 hour ago, Mark Norfleet said:

I’m betting he doesn’t…

To the original question, I don’t think it really matters if a chinrest touches the saddle, so long as it fits the area and isn’t applying pressure in a way that would force it out.  It’s also fairly easy to alter most chinrests to fit the saddle area or just remove the material that comes in contact with it if you need to move it to the right for your comfort.

As for which style sounds better, it depends on the instrument.  If I have a choice, I prefer over the tailpiece versions that fit well in order to reduce the risk of damage and rib buckling.

Mr.Heifetz uses hill style chinrest for life, ha, give me a candy to eat

Yes, but not every style can be modified. The most common one is Flesch style chinrest. Maybe customization is a good choice.

I used to think it was correct not to press on the Tailpiece, but then I found out... everyone's chin will press on it, unless you use Flesch style chinrest

If you use boxwood Tailpiece, you will be surprised by how large the area it touches...

1907.jpg

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Could someone look at the pics I posted on my previous reply, there seems to be a crack where the chinrest touches the violin? Would like to know if it's important I go to a luthier soon, or if it's not a big deal.

I was reading this article a few days ago, where it states:

"If you have a chinrest clamped on the side of your violin, you are inhibiting the resonance of that part of wood and thus affecting the overall sound of your instrument. Some people believe that clamping over the endblock affects resonance less because that area doesn't ring much to start with. Thus, chinrests that sit over the tailpiece are popular. Additionally, if you use two small feet, rather than a bar of wood (called a Hill style chinrest), then you can decrease the amount of wood that is prevented from vibrating." https://masterhandviolin.com/Blog18.html

Interesting how there seems to be contradicting information about this.

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28 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Not true.

I always thought I wouldn't press against the tailpiece until I switched to boxwood and didn't see the mark on the chin, before that I used rosewood and ebony and they just shone brighter.

It took me five seconds to find two performers, and I was sure that I had no interest in their performances. It can be seen that their chins are always on the Tailpiece.... Unless you have a very small face or use Flesch style chinrest, I can't think of any other possibilities.

 

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58 minutes ago, D27 said:

Could someone look at the pics I posted on my previous reply, which there seems to be a crack where the chinrest touches the violin? Would like to know if it's important I go to a luthier soon, or if it's not a big deal.

I was reading this article a few days ago, where it states:

"If you have a chinrest clamped on the side of your violin, you are inhibiting the resonance of that part of wood and thus affecting the overall sound of your instrument. Some people believe that clamping over the endblock affects resonance less because that area doesn't ring much to start with. Thus, chinrests that sit over the tailpiece are popular. Additionally, if you use two small feet, rather than a bar of wood (called a Hill style chinrest), then you can decrease the amount of wood that is prevented from vibrating." https://masterhandviolin.com/Blog18.html

Interesting how there seems to be contradicting information about this.

I have two violins with a similar condition, nothing serious. I assume they are due to the difference in humidity when playing.

The maintenance guy told me that this has little effect on the sound and that if it doesn't get louder, I can just ignore it. I don't feel any difference in the sound myself...

Think about it another way, it may be worse if you don't use chinrest. Maybe you don't need to worry about this problem, don't tighten the screws too tight...

If you are asking, is this caused by you, I can only say. This should be caused by sweating. Over time, it will become moldy and won't stick. You can ask Mr.Burgess to handle it.... :)

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