The Perfect Bow (for me). Does it Exist?

[Dwight Brown]

29 minutes ago, violinsRus said:

I agree, and apply it to myself as well.  But I have found that practicing and playing is so much more enjoyable when I've got a new toy! 

I am a prime example of this!  I do love a new tool :-) and I love instruments and bows, the pursuit of which has taught me a good deal and a good deal about myself.  Truly I need to go practice.

DLB

[sospiri]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:42 PM, GoPractice said:

Teissica is correct, there might not be a singular bow.

The realm, reality, of music is so large that not one bow can express all necessary data.

Not saying that things need to evolve but they do.

If "a" bow is for you, enjoy the process in finding it. Otherwise, enjoy what one has. Which should not restrict what you seek.

This thing with gold is silly. 

Why is gold mounting silly? Isn't it easy to work with. Doesn't tarnish and the amount used is very small and inexpensive?

Or do bowmakers overcharge for gold mounted bows?

[Dwight Brown]

12 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Why is gold mounting silly? Isn't it easy to work with. Doesn't tarnish and the amount used is very small and inexpensive?

Or do bowmakers overcharge for gold mounted bows?

I love gold mounting.  I own precisely one gold gold mounted bow and one that has a titanium frog and a gold adjuster, but That's another story :-)

DLB

[sospiri]

2 minutes ago, Dwight Brown said:

I love gold mounting.  I own precisely one gold gold mounted bow and one that has a titanium frog and a gold adjuster, but That's another story :-)

DLB

Is it expensive though Dwight? Do you pay more for the exclusivity of it rather than the monetary value?

[GoPractice]

19 hours ago, itrebmirag said:

 ( ... )

I've found the "perfect" bow once when I was trying out stuff. It was a finished repair and already owned, but the bow maker let me try it out. It was a lovely Sartory with its original tinsel lapping. The way I remember it is that it just fit perfectly in my hand. It had the perfect pull, stiffness, and produced so many colors. It may have been a pinch-less powerful than my Grunke, but it really was an eye opening event for me.

 ( ... )

Without introducing more voodoo, many ( many ) of my friends own Sartory and related bows.

The hardcore players still use their Nurn and Pfretz as they do have more core and security in their sound ( even if they own a Sartory. ) But I think it is generational too. My older friends are practical and have quite a few medium priced bows while the younger crowd has one maybe two high priced bows. As auditions have devolved in gladiator battles, the best weapon might have been critical.

Here's the voodoo. Sometimes a nicely owned and loved Sartory can be phenomenal. Better than a majority of old French like perhaps some newer instruments playing better than a majority of Strads? That great Sartory was likely selected by a loving owner who then passed it on to another appreciative player.

There is a Sartory owned by a friend that would be worth acquiring. We tend to come across instruments and bows in passing.

[GoPractice]

6 hours ago, sospiri said:

Why is gold mounting silly? Isn't it easy to work with. Doesn't tarnish and the amount used is very small and inexpensive?

Or do bowmakers overcharge for gold mounted bows?

 In an earlier discussion, some decided that gold fittings were used with the "best" sticks.

Sure. When this occurs, it is not an overcharge.

Not sure how other players filter bows when they are displayed at the shop, but I almost always start with the lowest price. I used to display them lowest to highest left to right. Rosin to the left of the bows along with an open cloth to wipe the bow. A cleaning cloth to the right of the bows to wipe the frog/ button.

I do appreciate fine work and some gold work might be exquisite. But these items become more collectible.   

It can also a bit distracting. One of my outside stand partners had a tortoise/ gold bow which was very visibly different. It was surprising how many people came to talk to her about her bow. Of course she was also extremely attractive and the bow an excuse to speak to her. I told her it was overpriced, but it was wonderful bow. Her husband buys her stuff.

As someone who occasionally drops and mars bows, silver is practical. I am ashamed to say that I refit a new silver frog on my old french nickel bow.

The newer bows being ordered are in white gold as I do like the contrast. The up charges are sometimes necessary. Some better makers no longer offer tiered pricing. If there are no or unique inlays in the frog then a gold button is nice as it draws attention to the craft. But again, these become collectible.

In a shop, the bow you imagine playing in the future does not matter if it is gold or silver.

[Dwight Brown]

8 hours ago, sospiri said:

Is it expensive though Dwight? Do you pay more for the exclusivity of it rather than the monetary value?

According to my friend who is a bowmaker a gold mounted bow is indicative of the maker's very best work.  I'm sure the storm clouds are gathering.  The bow is exquisite in any case.

 

DLB

 

[Dwight Brown]

Here is the Titanium and gold bow.

 

DLB

 

[sospiri]

23 hours ago, GoPractice said:

 In an earlier discussion, some decided that gold fittings were used with the "best" sticks.

Sure. When this occurs, it is not an overcharge.

Not sure how other players filter bows when they are displayed at the shop, but I almost always start with the lowest price. I used to display them lowest to highest left to right. Rosin to the left of the bows along with an open cloth to wipe the bow. A cleaning cloth to the right of the bows to wipe the frog/ button.

I do appreciate fine work and some gold work might be exquisite. But these items become more collectible.   

It can also a bit distracting. One of my outside stand partners had a tortoise/ gold bow which was very visibly different. It was surprising how many people came to talk to her about her bow. Of course she was also extremely attractive and the bow an excuse to speak to her. I told her it was overpriced, but it was wonderful bow. Her husband buys her stuff.

As someone who occasionally drops and mars bows, silver is practical. I am ashamed to say that I refit a new silver frog on my old french nickel bow.

The newer bows being ordered are in white gold as I do like the contrast. The up charges are sometimes necessary. Some better makers no longer offer tiered pricing. If there are no or unique inlays in the frog then a gold button is nice as it draws attention to the craft. But again, these become collectible.

In a shop, the bow you imagine playing in the future does not matter if it is gold or silver.

I wonder if a jewelry maker could teach me enough technical knowledge to help me make professional level frogs. There was a jewelry making class just 100 yards from where I learn advanced woodworking skills. I wanted to join, but then covid happened and it was abandoned and I forgot about it.

Looking at the prices of some of the less famous makers makes me think I wouldn't be wasting anyone's time if I was to try out a few of them even if I am happy with the ones I currently play. 

 

[GoPractice]

Not fair starting with the stamped pic.

Is the second bow a Morizot frere?

[Dwight Brown]

3 minutes ago, GoPractice said:

Not fair starting with the stamped pic.

Is the second bow a Morizot frere?

Well..........

DLB

[GoPractice]

And you have over a thousand bows?

[Dwight Brown]

1 minute ago, GoPractice said:

And you have over a thousand bows?

Just a dozen or so :-)

DLB

[Casey Jefferson]

The cyborg looking bow is an innovation by Gilles Nehr, always wonder how it plays and sound.

https://www.gillesnehr.com/tete-beche

[GoPractice]

Ok, play hardball.

Given names like Josh and Rodney, my money is on Rodney's daughter, in silver.

So many aspects of our lives are sampling. I do not drive C8s like the royalty here. Being the guy that might get 3ft off the line in a Prius, I am a bit more cagey about purchases. Does Josh have a kid that makes bows?

[Dwight Brown]

47 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said:

The cyborg looking bow is an innovation by Gilles Nehr, always wonder how it plays and sound.

https://www.gillesnehr.com/tete-beche

I like it particularly well.  It pulls a really big sound.  It does very well with my Curtin viola.

DLB

[Dwight Brown]

45 minutes ago, GoPractice said:

Ok, play hardball.

Given names like Josh and Rodney, my money is on Rodney's daughter, in silver.

So many aspects of our lives are sampling. I do not drive C8s like the royalty here. Being the guy that might get 3ft off the line in a Prius, I am a bit more cagey about purchases. Does Josh have a kid that makes bows?

It's only a C7 I'm afraid but it is fun :-)

DLB

 

[Andrew Victor]

The balance of a bow can be changed either by inserting weights into the tip or frog or my changing the material of the wrap at the frog end (z.b., replacing metal wire with silk or faux whalebone). I have had both done by professionals to a couple of my bows that were too frog-heavy for me. It made a world of difference in handling without any difference in sound production (as far as I could tell).

[sospiri]

8 minutes ago, Andrew Victor said:

The balance of a bow can be changed either by inserting weights into the tip or frog or my changing the material of the wrap at the frog end (z.b., replacing metal wire with silk or faux whalebone). I have had both done by professionals to a couple of my bows that were too frog-heavy for me. It made a world of difference in handling without any difference in sound production (as far as I could tell).

The variability of the weight of the frog is surely a more practical solution. But that means changing the original frog, which serious bow collectors consider sacrilege.

An even more practical solution is to not obsess about bow balance point. It depends how flexible your technique is.

Sorry if that sounds presumptuous, because I know that some people like things a certain way, but others are more adaptable. 

[PaganiniVuillaume]

4 hours ago, Dwight Brown said:

Well..........

DLB

Tete Beche by Gilles?

[Dwight Brown]

6 minutes ago, PaganiniVuillaume said:

Tete Beche by Gilles?

Absolutely! He is a lovely guy and he is based in Montreal now.

DLB

[Dwight Brown]

On 11/25/2023 at 7:50 PM, sospiri said:

The variability of the weight of the frog is surely a more practical solution. But that means changing the original frog, which serious bow collectors consider sacrilege.

An even more practical solution is to not obsess about bow balance point. It depends how flexible your technique is.

Sorry if that sounds presumptuous, because I know that some people like things a certain way, but others are more adaptable. 

I have thought incorporating small pockets for weights in the bow would allow for adjustment. Perhaps tungsten as it is very dense. 
 

DLB

[David Burgess]

On 11/25/2023 at 7:46 PM, Dwight Brown said:

It's only a C7 I'm afraid but it is fun :-)

DLB

 

The C7 Corvettes are very capable cars. The C8 is a little more "refined", with slightly better noise isolation and ride, but to me, that makes them feel more numb in terms of feedback to the driver.
The same thing happened when I moved from my C5 to a C7. It took me a long time to get used to the "numbness" of the C7. Many of my feedback cues were missing, a little like trying to play a violin while wearing gloves and earplugs. I still miss my C5.

[Dwight Brown]

5 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

The C7 Corvettes are very capable cars. The C8 is a little more "refined", with slightly better noise isolation and ride, but to me, that makes them feel more numb in terms of feedback to the driver.
The same thing happened when I moved from my C5 to a C7. It took me a long time to get used to the "numbness" of the C7. Many of my feedback cues were missing, a little like trying to play a violin while wearing gloves and earplugs. I still miss my C5.

I like that it is the last Corvette to have a standard shift.  I doubt there will ever be another.

7 speeds, no waiting!

DLB

[David Burgess]

18 minutes ago, Dwight Brown said:

I like that it is the last Corvette to have a standard shift.  I doubt there will ever be another.

7 speeds, no waiting!

DLB

And soon enough, there will probably be no more Corvettes with internal combustion engines. Unless there is so much nostalgic demand, that GM decides to make a limited-production "retro" model.