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I bought a new violin, how much would you say its worth


ViolinAnanda

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6 hours ago, Don Noon said:

To my non-expert eye, it looks to me like a hand-made violin by an OK maker, not a high-level pro.  As for what it's worth, that depends on reputation of the maker is and how it was purchased.

7 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

did you buy it retail in a shop, or at some sort of jumble sale?

It was bought in reputable retail shop with string instruments if that gives more clue to the price. I will post tomorrow full details, now I'm gonna go to sleep. Mainly I'm curious how luthiers know for sure something is hand-made or not. Do they look at the scroll finish mostly? How luthiers know what quality of wood was used, do they look at grain lines on top plate, if it's highest or good quality?

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54 minutes ago, Pianootaku said:

It was bought in reputable retail shop with string instruments if that gives more clue to the price. I will post tomorrow full details, now I'm gonna go to sleep. Mainly I'm curious how luthiers know for sure something is hand-made or not. Do they look at the scroll finish mostly? How luthiers know what quality of wood was used, do they look at grain lines on top plate, if it's highest or good quality?

There’s a wide range of “hand made”, and it doesn’t really correlate to high quality.

 

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2 hours ago, Pianootaku said:

It was bought in reputable retail shop with string instruments if that gives more clue to the price. I will post tomorrow full details, now I'm gonna go to sleep. Mainly I'm curious how luthiers know for sure something is hand-made or not. Do they look at the scroll finish mostly? How luthiers know what quality of wood was used, do they look at grain lines on top plate, if it's highest or good quality?

What would make you think it would be “worth” anything other than what you paid for it??? And if you bought it new in a shop and want to sell it again maybe a bit more than 50% of that.

Also, hand-made can be applied to any violin, in particular the cheapest violins you can find from China.

Both lines of inquiry seem rather strange.

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44 minutes ago, Guido said:

Both lines of inquiry seem rather strange.

Strange for us who are steeped in sawdust, but not so strange for someone who just spent some money on a violin they don't know much about.

In any case, the bottom line is that neither the value nor how "handmade" it is can have any useful answer at this point.

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6 hours ago, Pianootaku said:

It was bought in reputable retail shop with string instruments if that gives more clue to the price. I will post tomorrow full details, now I'm gonna go to sleep. Mainly I'm curious how luthiers know for sure something is hand-made or not. Do they look at the scroll finish mostly? How luthiers know what quality of wood was used, do they look at grain lines on top plate, if it's highest or good quality?

 

Just Play it.

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17 hours ago, Pianootaku said:

I wanna know if I overpayed or underpayed for it. Based on photos, how much would you say it is worth in $? How one recognizes if its fully hand-made or not? I will later post how much I payed and show the label inside.

 

10 hours ago, Pianootaku said:

It was bought in reputable retail shop with string instruments if that gives more clue to the price. I will post tomorrow full details, now I'm gonna go to sleep. Mainly I'm curious how luthiers know for sure something is hand-made or not. Do they look at the scroll finish mostly? How luthiers know what quality of wood was used, do they look at grain lines on top plate, if it's highest or good quality?

I always wonder at the wisdom, in posting a thread of this nature, after purchase.

It seems now, there is only potential disappointment for the OP, as people try to have a guess. Already there is quite a range of opinions, and prices. Some of these are going to be quite different to what you know about the violin, and may not make you feel good.
You have bought it now, and it might have been best to seek any opinions first.

When it comes to what one can tell from pictures, what can be said with certainty, is limited. Therefore, no-one is going to conclusively be able to say if it was machine made, hand made, or part of each. It's certainly not decided by the scroll alone, as you seem to imply.
Quality of wood, cannot be determined by a visual means only, though it may give some basic hints.
What might be an appropriate price, could vary, based on the country it is for sale in.

Ultimately, as you now own the violin, it would be best just to concentrate on enjoying playing it. Rather than worry what random people you will never meet, or know if they are any more experienced than you, think about your violin.
 

 

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It is violin from Klaus Heffler workshop in Germany, model no. 500. The retail shop said that it was fully hand made by luthier. It costed $1200. I was a little bit sceptical as it kind of is too cheap to be fully hand made only by one person, not sure they were fully honest. Now I checked in internet that he apparently works with his son and father in one workshop. Dont know if more people are involved.

Cant find much on this forum or internet about Klaus Heffler. I see few shops in internet that sell his violins, some violins are top quality and expensive. I was curious if he can keep up making so many violins with help of his father and son and if this violin I bought was truly made by him alone or maybe by his helpers under his guidance. How much of his personal time and hand was really invested in this price?

I thought that if I sell in few years this european workshop made violin  I will regain 100% or even more of the price in the future (wood vibrates better after playing it for years) as opposed to chinese violins that would be harder to sell above 80% of its initial value.

20231119_221205.jpg

20231119_221159.jpg

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19 hours ago, Rue said:

It looks nice! How does it play/sound?

It's hard to say how good it sounds as it is subjective. To me after switching from $100 chinese Stentor, the playing is drastically more responsive and resonant. I would say sound is decent but of course 2-3 more expensive models would sound much better.

I would say that string A could be improved as there is wolf tone and response is a little bit worse than other strings. But maybe it can be improved by using better strings than included Pirastro Tonica. The sound also could have less reverb and be more defined but maybe its because they put $5 bridge on it and with more expensive bridges that are stiffer, maybe it could be improved.

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1 hour ago, Brad Dorsey said:

That is unlikely, because you bought at retail, and you will probably sell at wholesale.

 

1 hour ago, Brad Dorsey said:

That is unlikely, because you bought at retail, and you will probably sell at wholesale.

Maybe you are right. Depending on future market and if chinese market will improve even more and there will be less german violins produced but still desired for rarity. Only in such case the price of this violin may go up. When I google this model in internet  some shop gives a price 2655 usd for new. And someone on ebay made 1899 usd offering for used one. I dont know why my costed only $1200 for new. Maybe because I bought it in Poland where economics and cost of living is lower.

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2 hours ago, Pianootaku said:

I thought that if I sell in few years this european workshop made violin  I will regain 100% or even more of the price in the future (wood vibrates better after playing it for years) as opposed to chinese violins that would be harder to sell above 80% of its initial value.

If you sell in a few years, you definitely won't get back 100%.  After several decades, probably.  The shop provides tremendous value to the players, allowing them to try out multiple instruments in one sitting.  And letting them take some out on trial.  As an individual seller, we can't offer that kind of service and that will hurt the amount of money we can get for our used instruments. And at this price point, I do not think where the instrument was made makes a whole lot of difference.

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I am glad it sounds better than your Stentor! :)

1. Nothing wrong with Tonica. They are, at the very least, a good starting point to compare against. But yes, a different A-string could help the sound.

2. If the retail prices in Poland are lower and/or resale is better, you might have a different market than in other parts of the world. We can't always generalize.

In my neck of the woods, the instrument would resell for about 60% of retail because it would classify as being a "used" item. It may never appreciate significantly in value.

3. Instruments don't automatically increase in value because they have been played. "Playing in" can happen in 10 minutes. A poor quality instrument will never sound better.  All instruments do, however, "settle" in response to environmental conditions however (re: humidty), doesn't matter if they are new or 300 years old.

Plus, we learn how to adjust our playing to get the most out of an instrument. So, an instrument can "sound" better because we are better playing it. In other words, the instrument isn't any better - but we are.

So many variables factor into sound quality and personal perception of sound. We have to be careful not to assign the "wrong" reasons to what we hear or think we hear.

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