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Am I being taken advance of?


MannyMutts

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Hi everyone,

I posted last week about the 1924 Roth reproduction of a 1732 Josef Guanarius I inherited.

Today I had it appraised by a well known fine violin shop in the area. Like I expected, the violin needs repairs. The owner quoted me $2k for repairs - Three cracks in the front (that he does not think will be an issue after the front is taken off or that will be very visible after corrected) and some cosmetic work to one corner.

He said a violin like this goes for $6k in excellent condition but he’d price it at $5k because it would have work done. He offered me $1.8k to take it as is.

While he seemed knowledgeable about Roth violins and the brand’s history, he kept oscillating between: “It’s a very nice violin” and “it’s a mass produced violin.” He never said what model Roth it is and said he couldn’t definitively make out the dates on the label.

I know nothing about violins and just don’t want to be taken advantage of or have unrealistic expectations. The quote for the repairs seems fair, but I expected more. He was EXTREMELY quick to take it off my hands which adds to my hesitation. (Also, the shop looked like Batman’s mansion - it was the most insane brownstone/violinist lair I could ever imagine)

I will be getting another opinion, but just wanted to see what you guys thought because this forum has been so helpful! Alternatively, if anyone has any ideas or tips for selling and repairing a vintage violin, those are always welcome, too!

Thanks for the time! I have loved learning about this beautiful instrument!

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While a mint condition violin like this might be worth $10,000 after a top level restoration that makes the cracks invisible, but that would probably cost more than $2000, as is 1.8 k for the violin seems about right, without the serial number they are harder to sell and authenticate but the 1732 should tell you which model it is, I would be concerned about the restorers ability to cosmetically repair cracks, ask to see some other examples of cracks he has repaired, at the top level the cracks would be invisible,.at the lowest level they would just be glued and look pretty much like they do now, that should not cost $2000, do you want to keep the violin or sell it, if sell then you would be better to sell it as is, you can list it in auction on ebay for 1800 min bid or take the shops offer, these instruments are iffy, I've had some look like this that didn't sound very good, others that sounded incredible

just checked the 1732 is the VIR model so right in the middle of the different levels of Roth violins so maybe worth a couple thousand more than the basic 1700 strad model at full retail after restoration 

I've wholesaled one of these in better condition for $3000, that's about the upper level of what you might get as is

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That is a fair offer for violin in this condition. Remember that the dealer has to pay for the repairs in-house, plus hold in inventory to sell it.

As far as quick offer goes, dealers know Roth violins, know the market, and don’t have time to waste.

I don’t recommend selling this violin via eBay if you have no experience. The fees are expensive, and you could easily get a problem buyer.

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11 hours ago, MannyMutts said:

Hi everyone,

I posted last week about the 1924 Roth reproduction of a 1732 Josef Guanarius I inherited.

Today I had it appraised by a well known fine violin shop in the area. Like I expected, the violin needs repairs. The owner quoted me $2k for repairs - Three cracks in the front (that he does not think will be an issue after the front is taken off or that will be very visible after corrected) and some cosmetic work to one corner.

He said a violin like this goes for $6k in excellent condition but he’d price it at $5k because it would have work done. He offered me $1.8k to take it as is.

While he seemed knowledgeable about Roth violins and the brand’s history, he kept oscillating between: “It’s a very nice violin” and “it’s a mass produced violin.” He never said what model Roth it is and said he couldn’t definitively make out the dates on the label.

I know nothing about violins and just don’t want to be taken advantage of or have unrealistic expectations. The quote for the repairs seems fair, but I expected more. He was EXTREMELY quick to take it off my hands which adds to my hesitation. (Also, the shop looked like Batman’s mansion - it was the most insane brownstone/violinist lair I could ever imagine)

I will be getting another opinion, but just wanted to see what you guys thought because this forum has been so helpful! Alternatively, if anyone has any ideas or tips for selling and repairing a vintage violin, those are always welcome, too!

Thanks for the time! I have loved learning about this beautiful instrument!

IMHO, comparing the back wood and antiquing pattern, your violin appears to be a close littermate of a Roth 1924 Josef Guarnerius with the Markneukirchen "football" brand and the serial number "B 874", which has an entry in the Tarisio Archive.     https://tarisio.com/cozio-archive/browse-the-archive/makers/maker/?Maker_ID=628     

Thought you might be interested.   "Fine" grade repairs and set up, in the $2K range, in a retail shop and given the current market conditions, sounds fair to me, too.  :)

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1. The repair cost seems reasonable.

2. This is not a higher grade model.

3. Auction prices skew retail prices even if they should or should not.  

4. It may not sound good.  I don't know if shops take this aspect into consideration as i am not a shop owner.

5. The shop has to make money too.  They will not offer full price or even anywhere near full value.

6. I like the violin.  I would restore it, keep it, and play it.

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41 minutes ago, violinnewb said:

1. The repair cost seems reasonable.

2. This is not a higher grade model.

3. Auction prices skew retail prices even if they should or should not.  

4. It may not sound good.  I don't know if shops take this aspect into consideration as i am not a shop owner.

5. The shop has to make money too.  They will not offer full price or even anywhere near full value.

6. I like the violin.  I would restore it, keep it, and play it.

Totally agree except 6. 

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I still think the violin could carry up to a $10-$12 price tag under the right circumstances.

But you have to be realistic and take what you can get at the end of the day.

For now though, shop around, If you can.

E.g. a $1,5k repair and $8k sale on 20% commission would get just shy of $5k in your pocket.

In my view that would be good outcome for you if you are willing to spend some time and effort.

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47 minutes ago, Guido said:

I still think the violin could carry up to a $10-$12 price tag under the right circumstances.

Maybe at a yard or estate sale.  On the internet, you'd pay more than that in shipping.  Or did you forget a "K" somewhere?  :D  ;)

1 hour ago, violinnewb said:

1. The repair cost seems reasonable.

2. This is not a higher grade model.

3. Auction prices skew retail prices even if they should or should not.  

4. It may not sound good.  I don't know if shops take this aspect into consideration as i am not a shop owner.

5. The shop has to make money too.  They will not offer full price or even anywhere near full value.

6. I like the violin.  I would restore it, keep it, and play it.

 

1 hour ago, mathieu valde said:

Totally agree except 6. 

Yup.  Restore it and sell it to a Roth fan.  Lots of them out there.  :)

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47 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Is to “being taken advance of” an American turn of phrase and does it have any unexpected denotation?

It is a contraction, which signifies pre-emptively taking advantage of another person, before that person takes advantage of you. It means roughly the same thing as "beating them to the punch" does in formal British. ;)

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