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NY Tarisio October 2023


PaganiniVuillaume

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5 minutes ago, violinnewb said:

Some REALLY, REALLY nice stuff for mid-range and upper end violin needs; HOWEVER, I would highly recommend getting condition reports as soon as possible.  I have already been able to cross off many violin bows off my list of bows to examine when I go to NY this weekend.

100%, just got a few. Luckily my office is 2 streets away from tarisio so definitely will go see everything i can in person. 

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1 hour ago, violinnewb said:

Some REALLY, REALLY nice stuff for mid-range and upper end violin needs; HOWEVER, I would highly recommend getting condition reports as soon as possible.  I have already been able to cross off many violin bows off my list of bows to examine when I go to NY this weekend.

So finally went through the condition reports and wow I agree, crossed a lot off of the list. 

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2 hours ago, PaganiniVuillaume said:

Some nice stuff in the Tarisio preview. Really like this PM Sigfried violin bow since you can never find one anymore. 

https://tarisio.com/auctions/auction/lot/?csid=2199945216&cpid=4079239168&filter_key=

That's Siefried, not Sigfried. I'd really like to own one of his bows, since we overlapped in the Weisshaar shop, were friends until he passed away, and he was one of the most talented observationists and artists I have ever run across . I may bid on it, since I am already set up to bid on one my violins.

Sheesh, if I can buy one of my violins within the Tarisio estimate of 10 to 15K for lot#163 at the November auction, when I have about a seven-year waiting list of people wanting buy them for more like 38K (and am likely to pass away before all of that comes to fruition), why wouldn't I do that? :)

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25 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

That's Siefried, not Sigfried. I'd really like to own one of his bows, since we overlapped in the Weisshaar shop, were friends until he passed away, and he was one of the most talented observationists and artists I have ever run across . I may bid on it, since I am already set up to bid on one my violins.

Sheesh, if I can buy one of my violins within the Tarisio estimate of 10 to 15K for lot#163 at the November auction, when I have about a seven-year waiting list of people wanting buy them for more like 38K (and am likely to pass away before all of that comes to fruition), why wouldn't I do that? :)

Meant to write Siefried, forgot we're not in Switzerland haha. I was waiting for you to comment once I saw your violin there :). Was hoping to snag it under 20k ;). Also have we established that the Calace violin is not a wilkanowski violin this time around?

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for a newbie.... when Tarisio lists an "estimated price" - what do they mean? I don't necessarily mean what do they say they mean on their website, but are they trying to predict what they think it will sell for? Or are they estimating the value of the instrument given the condition report? I am asking in response to David's comment above - since that 10-15K estimate is wildly different than the 38K! 

I guess in an auction an "estimated price" is a somewhat worthless piece of data? 

I got a bunch of condition reports and it made me start wondering how much they factor the condition reports into that price range. Or if I should 100% ignore those numbers.

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17 minutes ago, Erica said:

for a newbie.... when Tarisio lists an "estimated price" - what do they mean? I don't necessarily mean what do they say they mean on their website, but are they trying to predict what they think it will sell for? Or are they estimating the value of the instrument given the condition report? I am asking in response to David's comment above - since that 10-15K estimate is wildly different than the 38K! 

I don't know either, since this would be the first time I have bid at an auction.

The condition report for my violin states:
"Back: in good condition
Ribs: minor cracks at end button.
Top: minor original grain insert at lower treble bout.
Head: in good condition.
Varnish: in good condition."

I can confirm that it is a violin I made, and that the grain insert is original from when I made it. I haven't the slightest clue what "minor cracks at end button" means, so have requested photos of that area.

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43 minutes ago, Erica said:

for a newbie.... when Tarisio lists an "estimated price" - what do they mean? I don't necessarily mean what do they say they mean on their website, but are they trying to predict what they think it will sell for? Or are they estimating the value of the instrument given the condition report? I am asking in response to David's comment above - since that 10-15K estimate is wildly different than the 38K! 

I guess in an auction an "estimated price" is a somewhat worthless piece of data? 

I got a bunch of condition reports and it made me start wondering how much they factor the condition reports into that price range. Or if I should 100% ignore those numbers.

Estimated price is what they think it will go for. Take it with a grain of salt. Also some of these estimated prices can be moved around depending on the seller's reserve price. 

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1 hour ago, David Burgess said:

I don't know either, since this would be the first time I have bid at an auction.

The condition report for my violin states:
"Back: in good condition
Ribs: minor cracks at end button.
Top: minor original grain insert at lower treble bout.
Head: in good condition.
Varnish: in good condition."

I can confirm that it is a violin I made, and that the grain insert is original from when I made it. I haven't the slightest clue what "minor cracks at end button" means, so have requested photos of that area.

ha. I got a bunch of condition reports for the cellos and a few of them have minor cracks at end button. it is an epidemic.

 

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On 10/25/2023 at 12:06 PM, Erica said:

for a newbie.... when Tarisio lists an "estimated price" - what do they mean? I don't necessarily mean what do they say they mean on their website, but are they trying to predict what they think it will sell for? Or are they estimating the value of the instrument given the condition report? I am asking in response to David's comment above - since that 10-15K estimate is wildly different than the 38K! 

I guess in an auction an "estimated price" is a somewhat worthless piece of data? 

I got a bunch of condition reports and it made me start wondering how much they factor the condition reports into that price range. Or if I should 100% ignore those numbers.

I have successfully participated in three (3) auctions and I try to take the "estimated price" with a grain of salt.  

Having said that, take the Francois Lotte Violin bow, I think lot 85.  If it plays well, I would love to bid.  Its estimate is $2,500 to $4,000.  If you search for shops selling a comparable Lotte bow, they range from $10,000 to $15,000.  So...I used the general rule of thumb that the "estimate" guesses are about 1/3 to 1/4 what would go for retail.  

Take that loose calculation and apply it to the Burgess violin.  Estimated price, $10,000 to $15,000.  You say $38,000.  $12,500 times 3 is $37,500.  So my general rule of thumb works here.

BUT..and that is a BIG BUTT and I cannot lie...my trick doesn't work all the time and often times yields wildly off results.  

So, my answer is "Who knows?"

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This (Lot 60) viola is very interesting looking and sounds like a lovely viola in the provided recording.  Cut down from something else?  But it's still massive at 17.75".

Estimated to go between $35,000-$50,000.  Do the experts probably have an idea who made it?  That seems like quite a bit for a collector to spend for an anonymous late 18th century instrument, and at 17.75" I don't think many people would consider it a "player."

https://tarisio.com/auctions/auction/lot/?csid=2199945216&cpid=3865919488

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47 minutes ago, Stephen Fine said:

This (Lot 60) viola is very interesting looking and sounds like a lovely viola in the provided recording.  Cut down from something else?  But it's still massive at 17.75".

Estimated to go between $35,000-$50,000.  Do the experts probably have an idea who made it?  That seems like quite a bit for a collector to spend for an anonymous late 18th century instrument, and at 17.75" I don't think many people would consider it a "player."

https://tarisio.com/auctions/auction/lot/?csid=2199945216&cpid=3865919488

Agreed. And the playing samples don't furnish any playing on the lowest string.

I'm also noticing from the side view photos that the tailpiece is very close to the presumably bulged lower bout arching, despite the unusually tall saddle.

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8 hours ago, Rue said:

It sounds nice!  

Might be a winner for those with long arms and lots of stamina! 

Even still.  If you're willing to buy a 17.75" viola, I assume that means you've looked at all the normal ones too.  And in that price range I'd be thinking about investment value.  Perhaps it has interesting provenance.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/25/2023 at 12:25 PM, Erica said:

I'd be interested if anyone has thoughts on the cellos. I am going up there before the auction ends, but only barely as work is killing me right now.  I'm hoping to get up there T/W the 14 or 15.

Any chance you would check out some of the cello bows as well? I’m looking at some and the condition reports are not the best to know..especially when I see that there are minor cracks and thumb and mortise (for the PFRETZSCHNER)

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18 hours ago, Cellocello said:

Any chance you would check out some of the cello bows as well? I’m looking at some and the condition reports are not the best to know..especially when I see that there are minor cracks and thumb and mortise (for the PFRETZSCHNER)

I had to cancel my trip. Work stuff has gotten in the way last week and this week. Have to make the money to afford the fancy cellos and bows, sadly :( 

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