Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

Karel van der Meer, Amsterdam (not Max Möller & Son)


Renegade

Recommended Posts

Hi friends, I bought a bow without any knowledge or conviction. The seller claims that it is an original 'Max Möller & Son Amsterdam'. Personally, I have my doubts, but I decided that for little money it would still be a good purchase. What charmed me the most was the shape of head :). I read a bit and found very few photos of other Möller bows... Such a low price and differences in construction suggest that it is not a Max Möller & Son Amsterdam.
However, I was interested in one of the descriptions of Max Möller's work - '...It is known both for the original pieces it produces as well as for the prominent historic instruments...'. That's why I thought maybe it was one of those historic bows? ...a novice's dreams :)

PS: what is the wood and fittings of my bow?

01.jpg

02.jpg

03.jpg

04.jpg

 

06.jpg

07.jpg

08.jpg

09.jpg

10.jpg

11.jpg

12.jpg

13.jpg

14.jpg

15.jpg

16.jpg

17.jpg

18.jpg

19.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 88
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Max Möller was (is?) a violin shop. The had a bow person who was French, but I expect he spent his life doing the re-hairs. The bows with the shop's stamp were bought in from all sorts of people, either in Markneukirchen (most) or Mirecourt, so you can’t really talk of “Max Möllers work”. Some of the bows are very nice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Max Möller was (is?) a violin shop. The had a bow person who was French, but I expect he spent his life doing the re-hairs. The bows with the shop's stamp were bought in from all sorts of people, either in Markneukirchen (most) or Mirecourt, so you can’t really talk of “Max Möllers work”. Some of the bows are very nice

Thx Jacob, but how to understand this description?

https://tarisio.com/cozio-archive/browse-the-archive/makers/maker/?Maker_ID=1482

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Möller_(luthier)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Renegade said:

That he learnt violin making as a youth, and became a shop keeper/dealer as an adult

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/23/2023 at 12:09 PM, jacobsaunders said:

That he learnt violin making as a youth, and became a shop keeper/dealer as an adult

I understand and thank you very much for your suggestions.
I absolutely did not think that the OP was made (by his own hands) by the father or son. Due to the rather specific head, I wonder if this bow comes from their store at all - and the packaging with the company's print is completely coincidental.
When this bow reaches me, I will try to read the inscription, because I can see something there.

PS: OP is nickel or silver?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Renegade said:

I understand and thank you very much for your suggestions.
I absolutely did not think that the OP was made (by his own hands) by the father or son. Due to the rather specific head, I wonder if this bow comes from their store at all - and the packaging with the company's print is completely coincidental.
When this bow reaches me, I will try to read the inscription, because I can see something there.

PS: if the bow has no hidden defects, I think that a total of 230 Euro is not a bad price.
PS: OP is nickel or silver?

For the moment I would presume that it is a nice silver mounted Markneukirchen bow. When you get it, you could take some decent pictures, 'cos the ebay pictures are pretty useless.€230 sounds good value, will make up partly for all the worthless crap you have bought on ebay for good money before:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One more parameter is given: height 1.5 cm

Can you 'clarify' the topic for me? How do the OP parameters (the version that it is a viola bow) compare with the parameters of master viola bows below?

Unless OP is, 3/4 viola bow :)

OP59,8g / 72 cm

Charles Peccatte 69.8g / 73.4 cm
Louis Gillet - 72.3g / 74.6 cm
EF Ouchard - 69.2g / 74.1 cm
Joseph Henry - 69g / 73.3 cm
Francois Peccatte - 71.7g / 73.9 cm
Jules Fétique length 66.6g / 74.4 cm
WE Hill & Sons - 71.1 g / 74.7 cm
Albert Nürnberger - 70 g / 74.1cm

PS: sorry Mark S. :/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Renegade said:

 

Charles Peccatte 69.8g / 73.4 cm
Louis Gillet - 72.3g / 74.6 cm
EF Ouchard - 69.2g / 74.1 cm
Joseph Henry - 69g / 73.3 cm
Francois Peccatte - 71.7g / 73.9 cm
Jules Fétique length 66.6g / 74.4 cm
WE Hill & Sons - 71.1 g / 74.7 cm
Albert Nürnberger - 70 g / 74.1cm

PS: sorry Mark S. :/

Martin S. 

:D

 

Viola bow lengths are pretty variable, and weights are extremely variable, even within the same maker's opus - they are also a function of the lapping material. So none of those measurements are very helpful, except to tell you that you don't have a fullsize viola bow. Do you even know whether the seller measured the total length or the stick length?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Martin S. 

:D

 

Viola bow lengths are pretty variable, and weights are extremely variable, even within the same maker's opus - they are also a function of the lapping material. So none of those measurements are very helpful, except to tell you that you don't have a fullsize viola bow. Do you even know whether the seller measured the total length or the stick length?

 

I was waiting for you to write something :) I'm sorry for the information taken from your site.
I don't know what he measured. I will write when the bow reaches me.
Do you think it's more of a viola bow?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Renegade said:

 I will write when the bow reaches me.
 

A kind of pseudo euphory is not unusual should one believe that one has made a killing on ebay. This is, as often as not, followed by a sudden sobering up, the moment the postman came and one opens the box. For that reason it is judicious to keep ones mouth shut until such time as one has the object on ones bench and still think that one has won the lottery:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Renegade said:

One more parameter is given: height 1.5 cm

Can you 'clarify' the topic for me? How do the OP parameters (the version that it is a viola bow) compare with the parameters of master viola bows below?

Unless OP is, 3/4 viola bow :)

OP59,8g / 72 cm

Charles Peccatte 69.8g / 73.4 cm
Louis Gillet - 72.3g / 74.6 cm
EF Ouchard - 69.2g / 74.1 cm
Joseph Henry - 69g / 73.3 cm
Francois Peccatte - 71.7g / 73.9 cm
Jules Fétique length 66.6g / 74.4 cm
WE Hill & Sons - 71.1 g / 74.7 cm
Albert Nürnberger - 70 g / 74.1cm

PS: sorry Mark S. :/

All this numbers are useless as long as you don’t know what you are comparing, violin- viola- cello, full-size, half etc. I would also never trust on measuring and weight given by an unknown seller. Lengths depend wether the button is included or not, the weight varys enormously with the amount of hair, the winding/lapping material. Some sellers are unable to read the right numbers or confusing them etc. So I agree that one has to wait and take measurements oneself before it is possible to tell more.

The price looks fair for an unbroken silver mounted bow. The Möller paper should be ignored, any bow could have put into it randomly by anyone at anytime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

A kind of pseudo euphory is not unusual should one believe that one has made a killing on ebay. This is, as often as not, followed by a sudden sobering up, the moment the postman came and one opens the box. For that reason it is judicious to keep ones mouth shut until such time as one has the object on ones bench and still think that one has won the lottery:)

To the point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi friends, I decided to restore this bow to its original condition. First question, ...I want to use the original wire that is on the bow. Is it good idea? I just don't know about its length. Second question, ...I'm going to unwind the original wire, clean it, straighten any kinks and reuse it. I want to limit mechanical cleaning of the wire as much as possible. What advice can you give me on this topic? What chemical should I use?

PS: The bow hasn't reached me yet.

12.thumb.jpg.04eaf8c1b2c7607a0c2fdd2e0edc59e3.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...