1939 Violin by Earle Hesketh - Valuation

[hnryhouuu]

Can anyone help me briefly evaluate this Guarneri del Gesu copy by British maker Earle Hesketh in 1939? Thank you!  

[martin swan]

Nice violin.

Some dealers make a distinction between Hesketh instruments made our of bought in MK parts such as this one and the earlier examples which were made entirely by Hesketh himself ... but the distinction seems more important when a dealer is buying than when s/he's selling!

Retail is between about £13,500 and £18k.

Yours is a late one in very good condition, possibly even with its original pegs - I would expect a retail price tag of about £14-15k.

[Blank face]

1 hour ago, martin swan said:

made our of bought in MK parts such as this one

Was my first thought, too, but I didn't dare to write it (expecting the usual protest). But a nice one.

[martin swan]

3 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Was my first thought, too, but I didn't dare to write it (expecting the usual protest). But a nice one.

In fact I think it's a slightly more complex scenario since the model is Hesketh's own - it seems that he found someone in MK to make to his specification.

Generally these Hesketh violins sound great, and many found their way into the hands of members of the Hallé orchestra in Manchester.

[Delabo]

Are they inside mould or BOB construction? At first glance the OP violin looks BOB, but zooming in I guess it could possibly be inside mould.

[martin swan]

I don't think anyone in the MK trade was using BOB in the late 1930s ... almost certainly outside mould

[Delabo]

13 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I don't think anyone in the MK trade was using BOB in the late 1930s ... almost certainly outside mould

Thanks.

[Blank face]

40 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I don't think anyone in the MK trade was using BOB in the late 1930s ... almost certainly outside mould

I would slightly disagree...even GDR violins were made usually this way. Same with this, s. the pinched ribs.

[martin swan]

I'm not sure that's a pinched rib, and am a bit reluctant to declare a method on the basis of one rib joint, but there are outside moulds with holes at the corners so you can leave the ribs long ...

Maybe the OP can show us some clear photos of the rib joins and the corner blocks?

With Hesketh, even if the bodies were made in MK, they are always very high quality - so while I accept that some MK production was BOB at this time I don't suppose it was the case for the better trade instruments, Großstadtgeigen etc ...?

[hnryhouuu]

Sorry for being quite unknowledgeable in regards of this topic — but may I ask what is MK or BOB? Is it necessarily a good thing?

I will post more photos about the rib joints and corner blocks later today.

[jacobsaunders]

3 hours ago, martin swan said:

 

Retail is between about £13,500 and £18k.

 

Sounds like a lot for a tickled up Markneukirchen box

[martin swan]

6 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Sounds like a lot for a tickled up Markneukirchen box

Yes they fetch high prices over here - they are very nicely tickled and as I mentioned they were made to order like the "Salsedo" instruments/

[jacobsaunders]

9 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Yes they fetch high prices over here - they are very nicely tickled and as I mentioned they were made to order like the "Salsedo" instruments/

My dad was given some tools by Hesketh’s widow, which I now have. I have never seen a violin though

[matesic]

20 minutes ago, hnryhouuu said:

Sorry for being quite unknowledgeable in regards of this topic — but may I ask what is MK or BOB? Is it necessarily a good thing?

MK = Markneukirchen. BOB = built on back. Neither is necessarily a good thing!

[martin swan]

4 minutes ago, matesic said:

MK = Markneukirchen. BOB = built on back. Neither is necessarily a good thing!

Neither is necessarily a bad thing ...

[martin swan]

8 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

My dad was given some tools by Hesketh’s widow, which I now have. I have never seen a violin though

Nice!

We have an early Hesketh here at the moment but we've had a couple in the past too. There's a bit of a Hesketh fan club ...

[hnryhouuu]

Thank you all for the amazing input. After some research on Tarisio, I found out that this violin possibly is a late work from Hesketh. Is it not as good as his golden age violins and are there any fatal flaws?

I am a soloist myself and I loved the sound of it personally. Harmonics are crisp and clear, with the opening of Mendelssohn being sweet and moderately bright, not as piercing as something like a new instrument.

Mose fantasia’s last variation sounds good to me. Harmonics are clearer than most violin I’ve tried.

(Allow me to share more) I was skeptical about buying an English violin at first, as the normal person would think italian violins are superior. But after trying this, it changed my opinion quite drastically. Is this like the pinnacle of British violins? If not, any makers’ violins should I try to understand the best sounding British instrument?

[hnryhouuu]

35 minutes ago, matesic said:

MK = Markneukirchen. BOB = built on back. Neither is necessarily a good thing!

So does this imply that it is German parts but assembled by British maker?

does the built on back affect the sound, or the vibration of the violin as a whole?

[matesic]

I couldn't possibly say. One thing that does strike me about this instrument is that the varnish is in startlingly good condition, particularly the vulnerable area of the treble C-bout and points. What's it been doing these 80-odd years?

[Delabo]

3 minutes ago, matesic said:

I couldn't possibly say. One thing that does strike me about this instrument is that the varnish is in startlingly good condition, particularly the vulnerable area of the treble C-bout and points. What's it been doing these 80-odd years?

Good point, it looks almost as good as new.

[jacobsaunders]

16 minutes ago, matesic said:

I couldn't possibly say. One thing that does strike me about this instrument is that the varnish is in startlingly good condition, particularly the vulnerable area of the treble C-bout and points. What's it been doing these 80-odd years?

 

10 minutes ago, Delabo said:

Good point, it looks almost as good as new.

I have a Victor Ensensperger, Vienna from 1908, which is absolutely brand new. One could enter it for some VSA new making competition or such like, so that isn’t really an argument

[martin swan]

It's funny how bargain-hunters always think that condition issues, wear, repairs etc re some sort of proof of quality.

The reality is that instruments in excellent condition command a premium.

I can't see why 80 years of careful playing would cause any particular issues.

35 minutes ago, hnryhouuu said:

Thank you all for the amazing input. After some research on Tarisio, I found out that this violin possibly is a late work from Hesketh. Is it not as good as his golden age violins and are there any fatal flaws?

I am a soloist myself and I loved the sound of it personally. Harmonics are crisp and clear, with the opening of Mendelssohn being sweet and moderately bright, not as piercing as something like a new instrument.

Mose fantasia’s last variation sounds good to me. Harmonics are clearer than most violin I’ve tried.

(Allow me to share more) I was skeptical about buying an English violin at first, as the normal person would think italian violins are superior. But after trying this, it changed my opinion quite drastically. Is this like the pinnacle of British violins? If not, any makers’ violins should I try to understand the best sounding British instrument?

the concept of a Hesketh "Golden Age" is a bit silly - he was a very fine commercial violinmaker, all the violins look broadly similar and where the parts started out isn't a major concern. There are may great makers in this period who are known to have used some bought-in parts.

For me Hesketh is one of the best English makers for sound, though I also like and admire Alfred Vincent (who also sometimes used prefabricated boxes). There are many many Italian makers of the same period whose violins make a sound that's only good for frightening children.

[Blank face]

2 hours ago, martin swan said:

while I accept that some MK production was BOB at this time I don't suppose it was the case for the better trade instruments, Großstadtgeigen etc ...?

The defintion of Großstadtgeige (and "better trade", however one would define them) is that it was made using the Markneukirchen bob construction method, and that's the way to recognice them - independend of the period. Postwar exiled Vogtland or Schönbach makers continued to construct their instruments in Mittenwald as bob (labelled often as Handarbeit aus M.), another way to recognice and separate them from the natives there, and this just changed in Bubenreuth with the bigger factory-alike making. Not to say that outside moulds weren't used earlier in Markneukirchen, but that is the exception.

The bob construction is in no way helpful to judge the quality of a violin, neither the use of a mould. Big parts of old Italian instruments, the Piemontese, Milan, South Italy including the Gagliano family all built on the back. Not to mention old French, Netherlands and so on and on.

OTOH cheapish Mittenwald Verleger violins of the poorest quality were made using an inside mould.

Regarding the OP it isn't only the joint in the middle but also the wobbly appearance telling me that it was built on the back; an outside mould rib joint is always straight flush and perpendicular to the plates, both joints being paralell.

 

[martin swan]

Thanks, useful analysis

though in the case of the OP photos, they seem to have been taken with a very wide lens and are generally distorted. I couldn't say if those rib corners were parallel or not.

[hnryhouuu]

Here you go. New photos