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Michael Klotz, Grandson of Mathias generation


jacobsaunders

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A couple of weeks ago, I was sitting in my workshop, minding my own business, when a gentleman woke me from my slumber by ringing up, and saying “I bought a violin from you 30 years ago, and could I bring it around for you to freshen it up”. I asked if he were sure that that was really 30 years ago, and he said he was absolutely certain, because he had bought it for himself as a 50th birthday present, and he has just turned 80. I asked if he still played it a lot, and he told me yes, the previous weekend he had just played Tchaikovsky's 4th Symphony on it (I presume with the help of a bunch of colleagues).

 

I was very pleased, because I could remember that the violin was a Michael Klotz, and I have another Michael Klotz, a decorated one with a (presumably) original apocryphal Stainer label in my cupboard. I have been telling everyone that it is a Michael Klotz, and a surprisingly large amount of people take me seriously when I say something like that, but I still prefer to have some empirical evidence.

 

Michael K is one of the 3rd,, or grandson of Mathias generation of Klotz makers. One can see this best by viewing the family tree from the website of the Mittenwald museum Familie_Kloz_Zettel_Satammbaum_2017.pdf (geigenbaumuseum-mittenwald.de)

Michael made comparatively few violins, or fewer have survived. Lütgendorff in his 1922 book couldn’t find him in the church documents, and even wondered if he had existed. Curiously though towards the back of the first volume on plate 93 he gives a full page illustration of a decorated Michael Klotz from 1752(!) The third volume of Lütgendorff (Drescher) from 1989 corrects this omission though. Michael Klotz was the son of Johann Karl Klotz and his wife Magaretha nee Knilling, born on 25th September 1749, and passed away on the 19th of January 1814. There is further biographical detail in the essay on the 3rd. Generation of the Klotz family by Wolfgang Zunterer that is available in English on the Mittenwald museum website (recommended) last paragraph Kloz_ENKEL_WEB_ENGLISCH_FEBRUAR_2019.indd (geigenbaumuseum-mittenwald.de)

This essay includes illustrations of an un-decorated violin from 1782. Walter Hamma in his two volumes on „Der Deutschen Schule“ also grumbles that his violins are difficult to find, and that he could only find two (both decorated) on pages 445 to 449. The un-decorated Michael Klotz I’m illustrating here is difficult to read the date of, but I think 1779.

I will try to show the violins next to each other for comparison purposes, and invite comments.

I had restored his Michael Klotz some 30 odd years ago, various colleagues have got their fingers on it in the meantime, but I am to polite to grumble about that

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

on the un-decorated one, I had to make a cheek, going from just below the E peg, to just above the A peg

Is this a quiz?:) I would guess at the treble side. But I can spot a tiny line rather in the middle of the E peg hole.

Great stuff for the photo album, thanks a lot.

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2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

The copper wire is holding the tailpiece on, would you like it to do anything else?

Maybe just to make me wonder what 'idiot' installed it?
Because there are two possibilities:
- Michael did it :)
- some ignorant agricultural mechanic did it
If an ignorant agricultural mechanizer, we have two options:
- it was done, for example, at the end of the 19th century (then we get excited, 'oh, what a beautiful old wire')
- it was done later (then we get excited, 'oh, Jacob admires it)

Can't this wire be replaced with gut, as was the case in the making of this violin?

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50 minutes ago, Renegade said:

To make it easier, I'll ask a question.
Let's say I came into possession of this violin and there was no tailpiece fitted. I would show you a picture. Then he installed such a wire and boasted about it on MN.
I'd love to hear opinions.

 

This was one common way during the 18th century to attach the tailpiece.

image.png.633c400ac853a5321f0cef64b291b9ec.png


 

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1 hour ago, Blank face said:

 

This was one common way during the 18th century to attach the tailpiece.

image.png.633c400ac853a5321f0cef64b291b9ec.png


 

OK. Arrived.
Please, do not be under any illusions that some statements, such as - the only right tool for planning the fretboard, is a planer, etc., will be omitted. If reading Roger Hargrave about the baroque setup, including the tailpiece construction, I learn about the depth of the tailpiece end, and what effect it has on the sound, the same applies to the length of the gut binding, and here we have a piece of metal in the place where the vibration is also aroused affecting the sound of the instrument... let me remain skeptical about the musical value of such an instrument.

PS: Work so hard and ... screw everything up with such a wire, like for a twisted pair. You will surprise me many more times :) 

By the way, I can understand it, someone worked hard on the violin and applied 'metalwork', I repeat... 'metalwork' to the tailpiece. But I don't think this piece of wire can be called that. Secondly, IMHO, you can't see the tailpiece on top, not even dirt, not to mention abrasion. Therefore, I don't think the metal/wire solution was originally used, but only gut. Also the spacing of the holes suggests an intestinal binding technique.

Sultana23.jpg.c5facf20316f5d67a5755a0690c1cfa1.jpg

 

MichaelKlotzdecorendknopfmitSH.jpg.7c2fb9fa24722e1635d6dbc81e8509ff.jpg

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48 minutes ago, Renegade said:

OK. Arrived.
Please, do not be under any illusions that some statements, such as - the only right tool for planning the fretboard, is a planer, etc., will be omitted. If reading Roger Hargrave about the baroque setup, including the tailpiece construction, I learn about the depth of the tailpiece end, and what effect it has on the sound, the same applies to the length of the gut binding, and here we have a piece of metal in the place where the vibration is also aroused affecting the sound of the instrument... let me remain skeptical about the musical value of such an instrument.

PS: Work so hard and ... screw everything up with such a wire, like for a twisted pair. You will surprise me many more times :) 

By the way, I can understand it, someone worked hard on the violin and applied 'metalwork', I repeat... 'metalwork' to the tailpiece. But I don't think this piece of wire can be called that. Secondly, IMHO, you can't see the tailpiece on top, not even dirt, not to mention abrasion. Therefore, I don't think the metal/wire solution was originally used, but only gut. Also the spacing of the holes suggests an intestinal binding technique.

Sultana23.jpg.c5facf20316f5d67a5755a0690c1cfa1.jpg

MichaelKlotzdecorendknopfmitSH.jpg.7c2fb9fa24722e1635d6dbc81e8509ff.jpg

For a “Tailgut” you can use gut, nylon, wire, kelvar, or god knows what else. In 18th C Vienna silver or brass wire was commonly used, should you wish to be authentic.

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8 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

For a “Tailgut” you can use gut, nylon, wire, kelvar, or god knows what else. In 18th C Vienna silver or brass wire was commonly used, should you wish to be authentic.

You post something super cool and interesting which 99% of us think is great and we're all saving the photos and are happy to see them, and hear your story.  

Then inevitably someone finds something to complain about.  I'm just done with that BS. JFC dude, get a life.   

Sorry if I'm a bit salty right now, this "holiday" over here is making me quite annoyed at the moment.  It's awful and I hate it with every fiber of my being.  

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10 hours ago, Renegade said:

Therefore, I don't think the metal/wire solution was originally used, but only gut. Also the spacing of the holes suggests an intestinal binding technique.

FWIW, I have a small collection of older tailpieces which I kept „as found“ in case I would ever need to copy one. They came also from collections, without instruments but with notes from where they were (allegedly) taken. One reads f.e. Hornsteiner 1813, the other features exactly the attachment we can see used here. The ivory piece has a groove between the tailgate holes which can be meant only for a thin diameter wire.

IMG_8883.jpeg

IMG_8882.jpeg

IMG_8881.jpeg

IMG_8884.jpeg

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