Whoever invented Micro-mesh is a genius

[germain]

The neck on one of my violins always felt a little grimy. Hans Nebel usually seals the neck with his "secret" polish making it near glass smooth and a bit too slippery for some perhaps. I like it. Well today I achieved the same results without a drop of polish just using micro-mesh. Started with 3200 and went in order up to 12000... wow  

 

[scordatura]

When I took his class he said to put orange shellac French polish on necks. Is that the secret formula?

[Dwight Brown]

3 hours ago, germain said:

The neck on one of my violins always felt a little grimy. Hans Nebel usually seals the neck with his "secret" polish making it near glass smooth and a bit too slippery for some perhaps. I like it. Well today I achieved the same results without a drop of polish just using micro-mesh. Started with 3200 and went in order up to 12000... wow  

 

I won’t even change a tail piece anymore on a good instrument. But I will do the micro mesh tango on the neck.

DLB

[Brad Dorsey]

1 hour ago, scordatura said:

...[Hans] said to put orange shellac French polish on necks...

That's what he used every time I saw him finish a neck.

[germain]

11 hours ago, Brad Dorsey said:

That's what he used every time I saw him finish a neck.

Yes seems about right and “elbow grease” which I certainly applied but with micro mesh

[David Burgess]

15 hours ago, scordatura said:

When I took his class he said to put orange shellac French polish on necks. Is that the secret formula?

That's what I use too, with most of it penetrating into the outer layers of the wood. Without some kind of a penetrant-sealer, the wood will quickly become rough again from moisture cycling and wear.

[germain]

2 hours ago, David Burgess said:

That's what I use too, with most of it penetrating into the outer layers of the wood. Without some kind of a penetrant-sealer, the wood will quickly become rough again from moisture cycling and wear.

So I’m guessing it’s still a good idea to seal it with a thin layer of shellac?

[David Burgess]

26 minutes ago, germain said:

So I’m guessing it’s still a good idea to seal it with a thin layer of shellac?

I wouldn't exactly describe it as a layer, but more as a penetrant.
Has worked out well for me, except that initially, the thumb doesn't slide as easily on the neck, if ones technique relies on that. But that goes away pretty quickly, and the protective affect lasts until the player has worn through quite a bit of wood, if the initial application of the shellac-based "french polish" had a high solvent-to-resin ratio.

[Rico Suave]

I use worn 400 grit, or maybe 600 paper, to finish sanding the bare wood then polish to a nice smooth surface and sheen with 3M ultrafine non-woven pad and Trewax Carnuba Paste Wax. Such treatment lasted all through my Kid's HS Orchestra days and is still smooth on a Violin I built. I don't recall, but I probably did a touch up or two during the 4 years of HS. 

[Brad Dorsey]

7 hours ago, David Burgess said:

I wouldn't exactly describe it as a layer, but more as a penetrant…

Yes.  As I do it, the shellac seals the wood pores and imparts a light sheen, but it doesn’t build up to any noticeable thickness.  Perhaps it would build up with multiple applications, but I stop applying it before that happens.

[germain]

I think I’ve heard others use linseed oil anyone have any experience with that?

[Dwight Brown]

As a user, not a maker ( Hi, I'm Dwight and I have a viola problem) I have really improved some instruments necks by using the Micro Mesh pads in sequence using all the grits.  It really makes a difference. Cheers to micro mesh man wherever you are!  I don't use any kind of polish or oil on the neck that is not already there from the maker including my high school/college instrument I've had for almost 50 years. I just line up the pads in order and work carefully and lightly.  It reminds me of grinding a telescope mirror when I was a kid, we had a wonderful 'cello teacher with a DMA student of Piatagorsky who made his own Telescopes. He had a 1703 Gofriller that was to die for.

DLB

[Davide Sora]

48 minutes ago, germain said:

I think I’ve heard others use linseed oil anyone have any experience with that?

I use linseed oil, but many consecutive applications are needed (letting each one dry well) to obtain a sufficiently durable barrier, it takes patience (about a week). If some kind of very diluted impregnation is applied first the time is shortened, in recent years I apply casein to impregnate the wood at the beginning (when applying it to the rest of the violin), the oil seems to penetrate less and dry sooner. I don't like shellac if it forms a layer that looks like varnish, but if it's used very diluted so it doesn't form a layer but just soaks into the wood I think it can work fine. As usual, it's not the product you use, but how you use it.

[germain]

1 hour ago, Dwight Brown said:

As a user, not a maker ( Hi, I'm Dwight and I have a viola problem) I have really improved some instruments necks by using the Micro Mesh pads in sequence using all the grits.  It really makes a difference. Cheers to micro mesh man wherever you are!  I don't use any kind of polish or oil on the neck that is not already there from the maker including my high school/college instrument I've had for almost 50 years. I just line up the pads in order and work carefully and lightly.  It reminds me of grinding a telescope mirror when I was a kid, we had a wonderful 'cello teacher with a DMA student of Piatagorsky who made his own Telescopes. He had a 1703 Gofriller that was to die for.

DLB

Yes I think I will do the same... Leave the wood as is and when it looses it smoothness just run the micro-mesh in order again. Let's see how long it takes before I start to fell the need to dry polish it again. I am not a luthier myself so I am trying to stay away from the chemicals...

[Peter Lynch]

It helps to continually raise the grain as you sand twice with 220, 400 then 600, wetting the wood and drying it hair dryer between each sanding.  Then apply a strong “tea” made of chicory as last wetting.  Buff on some pigment and finish with French polish and talc.  

[nathan slobodkin]

Just rubbing with micromesh will tend to leave an unattractive streaky look to the neck and if repeated over and over with no other correction will eventually leave a rippled feel on a flamed neck. Coloring the neck then applying very thin shellac does provide a little protection. As Sora mentioned even the simple stuff is not really that simple.

[JacksonMaberry]

Micromesh is super. I generally use 3M polishing cloths, repackaged by Zona and sold on Amazon. Cheaper and does as good a job. For necks I do what Peter Lynch suggests, vis a vis raising the grain repeatedly as I move through the grits down to 1 micron. Then I prime it for color and do the last couple grits again (water based oxidizing primer), then seal with a paste of marienglass in hand washed, blown linseed oil, buff off excess, and cure under UV.  Pretty durable, resistant finish that is just in the wood, not on the surface. Drag on a neck is no fun.

[Melvin Goldsmith]

For necks I usually use progressive grades of Mirka wet and dry paper done dry . It is quite stiff and less likely to conform to undulations in the figure of the maple. I wet between abrading as Peter mentioned. I finish the neck with a rub of linseed oil + driers+ raw ochre pigment. In my opinion and most clients I meet the neck needs a degree of porosity for the hand to glide over. A very shiny sealed neck French polished can grab at the hand so we need to be careful re that...always more than one way to do the job of course.

[JacksonMaberry]

24 minutes ago, Melvin Goldsmith said:

For necks I usually use progressive grades of Mirka wet and dry paper done dry . It is quite stiff and less likely to conform to undulations in the figure of the maple. I wet between abrading as Peter mentioned. I finish the neck with a rub of linseed oil + driers+ raw ochre pigment. In my opinion and most clients I meet the neck needs a degree of porosity for the hand to glide over. A very shiny sealed neck French polished can grab at the hand so we need to be careful re that...always more than one way to do the job of course.

Agreed.

[GoPractice]

Aside from the pins on Maestro Goldsmith, on my mundane work days, I might complete work on the homes of the wealthy.

Micromesh is "amazing" as to the OP. But backed paper makes a difference. I am not certain that forming abrasive papers into a curve helps in upgrading huge kitchens in the homes wealthy individuals. And we experiment.

[JacksonMaberry]

22 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

Micromesh is super. I generally use 3M polishing cloths, repackaged by Zona and sold on Amazon. Cheaper and does as good a job. For necks I do what Peter Lynch suggests, vis a vis raising the grain repeatedly as I move through the grits down to 1 micron. Then I prime it for color and do the last couple grits again (water based oxidizing primer), then seal with a paste of marienglass in hand washed, blown linseed oil, buff off excess, and cure under UV.  Pretty durable, resistant finish that is just in the wood, not on the surface. Drag on a neck is no fun.

 

[GoPractice]

In trying to be too opaque, communicated nothing. In doing detailed trim work like moulding, there are a lot of used cupped backed paper of various sizes. Micromesh "pads" offer slightly less degrees of control as the foam backing gives a bit. With just the mesh or polishing materials on backed paper, I get better results if control is necessary.

Sometimes a slightly deeper cleaning of organic materials off the neck surface makes it feel better. 

[FiddleMkr]

I understand that micromesh was stolen from the aircraft industry. It was invented to take the scratches out of plexiglass windshields. 

[JacksonMaberry]

10 minutes ago, FiddleMkr said:

I understand that micromesh was stolen from the aircraft industry. It was invented to take the scratches out of plexiglass windshields. 

Does really well at that kinda thing. I've restored many headlamp covers with the stuff. You can "repair" scratched CDs, DVDs, and so on with it too. Not that anyone uses those anymore

[Jeffrey Holmes]

On 5/29/2023 at 3:51 PM, Peter Lynch said:

It helps to continually raise the grain as you sand twice with 220, 400 then 600, wetting the wood and drying it hair dryer between each sanding.  Then apply a strong “tea” made of chicory as last wetting.  Buff on some pigment and finish with French polish and talc.  

 

On 5/30/2023 at 4:46 PM, Melvin Goldsmith said:

For necks I usually use progressive grades of Mirka wet and dry paper done dry . It is quite stiff and less likely to conform to undulations in the figure of the maple. I wet between abrading as Peter mentioned. I finish the neck with a rub of linseed oil + driers+ raw ochre pigment. In my opinion and most clients I meet the neck needs a degree of porosity for the hand to glide over. A very shiny sealed neck French polished can grab at the hand so we need to be careful re that...always more than one way to do the job of course.

For what it's worth; While I use something slightly different to color the wood, I finish it in the same general manner as Peter and Melvin do.