Schonbach scroll carver's workshop 1946 photo, interesting old tools - where is the violinmaker's axe?

[Andrew tkinson]

On hearing on the radio, today, about the evacuation of the  Swiss village of Brienz, due to increased risk of rock slides, I looked up the violin making school on the internet and found this interesting old photo below, (sorry about the poor quality)

I was intrigued to see the shaving horse and its accompanying padded seat, in prominent place at front right. Then the work holding jig? at the back (a bit like my home made plane making wedge operated clamp!) and the mysterious peg on the bench at the front. I notice the bench doesn't seem to have a screw operated vice? I also like the three legged gluepot/posnet, Just like the one shown in the famous woodcut (from the same period when Andrea Amati was flourishing) by Jost Amman of "Der lautenmacher".

I have often thought purpose made holding jigs are best for quick repeat work rather than the very useful but general purpose screw vice. Work holding jigs would make sense, to me, for a worker who specialized in scroll making. A shaving horse is a device that allows very quick and firm holding and repositioning of unevenish shapes, perhaps it was used here when roughing out many necks, especially in ones of the cheaper grades, made with plane, unfigured wood which I suspect would be less risky to drawknife to shape than heavily figured wood?

In contrast to the general 'ancientness' visible, there seems to be some kind of motorised flexible shaft device, perhaps for carving?

I wonder if anyone on Maestronet, could explain the likely use to a scroll carver of some of these tools and devices which don't seem to be found in modern luthiers workshops?

I would be especially grateful if anyone can tell me where I can find more of these photos, taken by someone named Ing Strauss in 1946, apparently on a sort of reconnaissance trip to the Schonbach area. I would really love to see the interiors of other workshops if they exist!

I wonder if this scroll carver, like Jost Amman's lutemmaker of 1568, had a trusty axe and chopping block but maybe hid them before the photographer arrived?

 

[Andrew tkinson]

I hope no one minds me posting again but I would be extremely interested in any other photos of violin workshops from the past, especially one like the one above showing woodworking equipment not usually found in luthier's workshops today, if anyone knows of any I would be really pleased to see them.

After a bit more searching today I found this picture on a site about the history of Hofner.

I was intrigued to see a shaving horse again (maybe the same one when it was newer?) in the workshop. It is being used as a convenient seat but I wonder what kind of work would a violinmaker use it for? I notice also, at the front left, hidden under the cello? front, what looks to me like the rough surface of a chopping block and possibly an axe handle (maybe a bit too large?) just to the right.j

If anyone knows where I can find more of these Schonbach workshop photos, or other similar ones I would be extremely interested. I can't promise them a toaster but could give them a tip on the best Viennese dustbins to rummage in for old violin kindling?

[David Rosales]

I believe it was replaced by the violinmaker’s sawzall. 

[match]

Normally, the carving bench was used in the Vogtland for the "Wölbungsziehen" (pulling the arching) of the plates. In addition, it was also useful for shaping the neck.

There are two very informative and interesting essays, one by Benjamin Schilbach:

https://www.schilbach.net/de/presse/fachartikel-vortraege-1/vortrag-zur-saint-cecile-der-aladfi-2012-in-samoen-in-vergessenheit-geratene-arbeitstechniken

and one by Hannah Weidauer:

https://libdoc.fh-zwickau.de/opus4/frontdoor/deliver/index/docId/14112/file/Weidauer_Hannah_Bachelorthesis_SS21.pdf

on this.

Translation attempt of Weidauer page 9:

"A central piece of furniture, which is a striking part of the workshop equipment, is the carving bench. It was widely used and was used in bass workshops not only for the making of necks, but also for tops and backs or fingerboards. In the case of finishing tops and backs, this operation is also called "Wölbungsziehen". Mainly, the material is worked out on the carving bench with the pulling iron. By clamping workpieces with a lever on the foot, the work is very intuitive and both hands can be used to guide the tools, which allows very fast work. It is not known exactly when the carving bench found its way into violin making."

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to translate all at the moment, but the great pictures alone are obvious (scroll down).

 

You can also find examples in the museums of Markneukirchen and Klingenthal:

https://vogtland-zauber.de/musik-und-wintersportmuseum-klingenthal/   (scroll down to the seventh pic)

 

[jacobsaunders]

4 hours ago, match said:

Normally, the carving bench was used in the Vogtland for the "Wölbungsziehen" (pulling the arching) of the plates. In addition, it was also useful for shaping the neck.

There are two very informative and interesting essays, one by Benjamin Schilbach:

https://www.schilbach.net/de/presse/fachartikel-vortraege-1/vortrag-zur-saint-cecile-der-aladfi-2012-in-samoen-in-vergessenheit-geratene-arbeitstechniken

and one by Hannah Weidauer:

https://libdoc.fh-zwickau.de/opus4/frontdoor/deliver/index/docId/14112/file/Weidauer_Hannah_Bachelorthesis_SS21.pdf

on this.

Translation attempt of Weidauer page 9:

"A central piece of furniture, which is a striking part of the workshop equipment, is the carving bench. It was widely used and was used in bass workshops not only for the making of necks, but also for tops and backs or fingerboards. In the case of finishing tops and backs, this operation is also called "Wölbungsziehen". Mainly, the material is worked out on the carving bench with the pulling iron. By clamping workpieces with a lever on the foot, the work is very intuitive and both hands can be used to guide the tools, which allows very fast work. It is not known exactly when the carving bench found its way into violin making."

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to translate all at the moment, but the great pictures alone are obvious (scroll down).

 

You can also find examples in the museums of Markneukirchen and Klingenthal:

https://vogtland-zauber.de/musik-und-wintersportmuseum-klingenthal/   (scroll down to the seventh pic)

 

I would like to thank Match for the interesting links. Since Google translate presumably doesn’t have it, I would translate the tool as a Spokeshave rather than as a pulling iron.

 

Much of violin making involves holding your work still with your left hand, and working it with the right one. These “carving benches” have an obvious advantage, that you can hold the work still with the pedal and have two hands free to work

PS: In the Jacob Stainer "workshop" in Absam, if you can get anyone to let you in, is such a "carving bench" as well, it is by no means unique to Schönbach

[match]

Thanks for the spokeshave

[Brad Dorsey]

1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

...I would translate the tool as a Spokeshave...

Or drawknife.

[Violadamore]

10 hours ago, match said:

Thanks for the spokeshave

I'll give a second vote for "drawknife" for "Gerades Reifmesser".  The "Gebogenes Reifmesser" is an "inshave", and the Schnitzbank (as noted by the OP) is a "shaving horse".  I've used the last (now prefer a vise), and still own and use some of the rest. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drawknife

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaving_horse

Spokeshaves, which I also have, are different, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spokeshave

Thank you immensely for posting those links. 

[Andrew tkinson]

16 hours ago, match said:

Normally, the carving bench was used in the Vogtland for the "Wölbungsziehen" (pulling the arching) of the plates. In addition, it was also useful for shaping the neck.

There are two very informative and interesting essays, one by Benjamin Schilbach:

https://www.schilbach.net/de/presse/fachartikel-vortraege-1/vortrag-zur-saint-cecile-der-aladfi-2012-in-samoen-in-vergessenheit-geratene-arbeitstechniken

and one by Hannah Weidauer:

https://libdoc.fh-zwickau.de/opus4/frontdoor/deliver/index/docId/14112/file/Weidauer_Hannah_Bachelorthesis_SS21.pdf

on this.

Translation attempt of Weidauer page 9:

"A central piece of furniture, which is a striking part of the workshop equipment, is the carving bench. It was widely used and was used in bass workshops not only for the making of necks, but also for tops and backs or fingerboards. In the case of finishing tops and backs, this operation is also called "Wölbungsziehen". Mainly, the material is worked out on the carving bench with the pulling iron. By clamping workpieces with a lever on the foot, the work is very intuitive and both hands can be used to guide the tools, which allows very fast work. It is not known exactly when the carving bench found its way into violin making."

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to translate all at the moment, but the great pictures alone are obvious (scroll down).

 

You can also find examples in the museums of Markneukirchen and Klingenthal:

https://vogtland-zauber.de/musik-und-wintersportmuseum-klingenthal/   (scroll down to the seventh pic)

 

 

11 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

I would like to thank Match for the interesting links. Since Google translate presumably doesn’t have it, I would translate the tool as a Spokeshave rather than as a pulling iron.

 

Much of violin making involves holding your work still with your left hand, and working it with the right one. These “carving benches” have an obvious advantage, that you can hold the work still with the pedal and have two hands free to work

PS: In the Jacob Stainer "workshop" in Absam, if you can get anyone to let you in, is such a "carving bench" as well, it is by no means unique to Schönbach

Hello Match and Jacob, thank you most sincerely for your replies. I wish I could read German but as Match says the excellent pictures provide much information and food for thought.

I find the idea of using drawknives and the shaving horses/schnitzbank to hold delicate spruce soundboards quite surprising but those shown in the pictures look to me to have a particularly nice, refined look to the clamping 'head'! The drawknives must have been very sharp and the clamping jaws well shaped and perhaps padded especially for the later stages of carving? I am even more pleased to see what appear to be diagrams of the schnitzbank components amongst the pictures in Hannah Weidauer's thesis and will try to make my own to experiment with as soon as I am able.

I have also noticed, in the tool catalogue illustrations, a small thumb plane which seems to have a curved groove to its sole, I wonder, is this for planing edgework, like a miniature moulding plane or some other specialised use?

Once again many thanks for this treasure trove of information and I hope people will add more photos or information of a similar nature, shedding light on what seems, at least to me, to be slightly less well known but important and interesting instrument making tools and methods.

(Or the unusual and surprising methods used in the past to make "the usual"?)

 

[Don Noon]

Nobody so far has mentioned the power rotary tool with flexshaft.  Naturally that was the first thing that caught my eye.

[Violadamore]

1 hour ago, Don Noon said:

Nobody so far has mentioned the power rotary tool with flexshaft.  Naturally that was the first thing that caught my eye.

Don, given the late date of the photo, and the already documented use of power tools (such as Thau mills and spray guns) by makers from the region, what's remarkable about it? 

[Don Noon]

53 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

Don, given the late date of the photo, and the already documented use of power tools (such as Thau mills and spray guns) by makers from the region, what's remarkable about it? 

Not that it's remarkable, but that anything with a motor on it attracts my attention..

[ernym]

Shaving horeses, drawknives, spokeshaves are great tools especially for making axe handles. In the right hands a sharp knife will do many tasks.

 

[Blank face]

18 hours ago, Andrew tkinson said:

I have also noticed, in the tool catalogue illustrations, a small thumb plane which seems to have a curved groove to its sole, I wonder, is this for planing edgework, like a miniature moulding plane or some other specialised use?

I’m not sure if it’s what you’re talking about, but supposedly you mean the finger plane for carving the soundpost, what can be a very helpful tool when you prefer to produce the post blanks on your own instead of buying prefabricated.

One more thanks for these most interesting and informative essays, I just don’t know when I will find the time to read through them all.

[Andrew tkinson]

Please forgive me for adding a couple of things to my own thread to bring it back to the top, in the hope that some more less well known photos of old violin workshops may be added by the generous and knowledgeable people of Maestronet?

Here is an interesting engraving of a wind instrument maker's workshop from a book of trades with engravings by Christophe Weigel from 1698. It seems to me surprising that a pole lathe can be used for such precise work but I understand that they can be used with a sort 'sensitivity' which allows for great control of force and speed. Note the axe and chopping block, essential equipment to many woodworkers  (even violin makers?) in earlier -pre sawzall - times!

Here is another illustration this time taken from Jan Luyken's book of trades which I believe was published slightly earlier than Weigel's and I think I read was used by Weigel as a scource for many of his images. This image is I think of a Gluemaker but I may be wrong? Perhaps the glue ingredients, swim bladders or skin scraps  are place in the large basket and are being washed before the next process? I hope some people who know may tell me more?

(More photos of old violin workshops gratefully recieved, thank you most sincerely!)

[Michael K.]

On 5/16/2023 at 2:45 PM, Don Noon said:

Nobody so far has mentioned the power rotary tool with flexshaft.  Naturally that was the first thing that caught my eye.

This rotary tool was from the company "Flex". Named "Flexmaschine" It had a stand that bolted to the workbench or was hung from the ceiling by a chain. It had a powerful but slow-running motor and was used for sanding jobs with a variety of different attachments. These include rollers for the handles or disc sanders.
I still have an old original (about 80 years old). Have no use for it. Maybe someday for a museum.