iloveluthierie Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 Hi, everyone! I am looking for some help identifying which member of the Nürnberger family made my cello bow. I have reason to believe it was made by Franz Albert Nürnberger II based on my research, but I am by no means an expert, nor am I anywhere close to being one. I have attached detailed photos of the bow and have enhanced the brands for your reference. There are three brands on the stick - “ALBERT NÜRNBERGER” in a sans-serif font above the frog, "1896" and "No. 5729" on the underside of the frog. As I understand it, the sans-serif font was used by Franz Jr. from 1884 when he took over the business until around 1910, when the serif font began to be used. Does anyone have any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 You can buy yourself the book, and slog your way through der Holfter GmbH im Online-Buchshop : VDG: Albert Nürnberger Ausstellung Leipzig 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtone Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 Hi and welcome, I think the serif may be worn off but have you got a pic of the underslide. I think I recall reading experienced members here talking about those numbers being from Wurlitzer and they pertain to the date made and maybe the catalogue number. But I need,would like to, buy the book Jacob referred to above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtone Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 Although it should also be noted,that others can access this info as well and use it for deceptive purposes,unfortunately. Caveat emptor, as always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 Nurnberger was more of a workshop than a solitary genius, but to my eye the model relates to the Franz Albert period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iloveluthierie Posted March 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 18 minutes ago, martin swan said: Nurnberger was more of a workshop than a solitary genius, but to my eye the model relates to the Franz Albert period. Yeah, that's true. I guess I should have framed my question as: "Was this bow made under the supervision of Franz Albert II?" Thanks for taking a look! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan slobodkin Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 5 hours ago, Gtone said: Hi and welcome, I think the serif may be worn off but have you got a pic of the underslide. I think I recall reading experienced members here talking about those numbers being from Wurlitzer and they pertain to the date made and maybe the catalogue number. But I need,would like to, buy the book Jacob referred to above. The date 1896 predates the NY Wurlitzer shop by decades. Was there a relationship with the Cinncinatti shop or are you suggesting the NY shop stamped these bows long after they were made? I do have the book and will look at it when I get into the shop but it seems curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Dorsey Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 There were two separate Wurlitzer firms headed by different members of the Wurlitzer family. The New York shop was founded by Rembert Wurlitzer in the late 1940s. Rembert was the grandson of the founder of the Rudolf Wurlitzer Company, which was established in Cincinatti in 1856. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan slobodkin Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 So… Back in the shop. The VDG book has a picture of a Rudolf Wurlitzer catalogue of 1910 showing a long list of Nurnberger bows available. Also a picture of a Nurnberger stamped bow with the RWB stamp on one side under the frog 1896 on the lowest facet and a serial number or catalogue # on the third facet. My German is nonexistent so I am not absolutely sure what picture goes with what date but for sure there were bows with these numbers sold by Rudolf Wurlitzer. Looking only at the pictures I am not seeing any other bows with this kind of numbering so it would appear that gtone is correct that the OPs’ bow was sold by the Cincinnati Wurlitzer shop and presumably during the early days of Franz Albert 2 supervision of the Nurnberger firm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane88 Posted March 23, 2023 Report Share Posted March 23, 2023 The Wurlitzer shop sold these and stated that the sticks were made from wood cut in 1860. The state that the year that the stick was made is stamped on the stick. The book that Ulrich has for sale of the 2013 exhibition has both the print catalog and the handwritten proof provided to Wurlitzer for the catalog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan slobodkin Posted March 23, 2023 Report Share Posted March 23, 2023 1 hour ago, duane88 said: The Wurlitzer shop sold these and stated that the sticks were made from wood cut in 1860. The state that the year that the stick was made is stamped on the stick. The book that Ulrich has for sale of the 2013 exhibition has both the print catalog and the handwritten proof provided to Wurlitzer for the catalog. So is the 1896 the year of manufacture? The VDG book (Ulrich's) show bows with other numbers which are not totally clear. Is the catalogue page you are showing the one from the book or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtone Posted March 23, 2023 Report Share Posted March 23, 2023 Hi Nathan, Just as it states on the advertisement.Supposedly stamped the year made eg.1896 and maybe that the other number was the certificate that is referred to in the same ad.I thought it was the model number. That is how I understood it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GennadyF. Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 Here is a thread from some years ago on the same subject you might find helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GennadyF. Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 To clarify, these Nurnberger bows were sent to Rudolph Wurlitzer (who was Nurnberger's sole distributor in USA). Certainly, they were first branded by Nurnberger with ALBERT NURNBERGER stamp and the year of manufacture above the mortise. When Wurlitzer received the bows in Cincinatti, they were branded *ЯWB* below the mortise (Rudolph Wurlitzer Brothers who ran the shop in Cincinatti at that time after their father died in 1914). The Wurlitzer catalog numbers in the 1913 issue go to around 5373 (if you look at the cello bows p.179). IMO, bows branded with Wurlitzer numbers 5600-5800, would likely be between 1916-1918. Below are 2 pages from the 1913 Rudolph Wurlitzer catalog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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