DistractedCat Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Hi Everyone, I'm brand new to the forum. I know Francois X Tourte did not necessarily stamp his bows, but I am wondering who the maker of this excellent bow might be. I found it and two bows marked 'Germany' at a garage sale recently. The lady said that the violin had been stolen years prior out of the case and the bows and case were all that was left. (Since the case and three bows were not taken, I postulate that it was taken and sold by a family member leaving the case to conceal the theft, but I did not wish to pry further). Anyway, I got all three and the case (the case was an unmarked and in really bad shape) for $25 USD and I have them at the Luthier getting re-haired and a some minor repairs done, but I am curious about this one marked TOURTE. It plays like no bow I've ever held before, and I've been playing for 45+ years. It's approx: 54-55 grams, and I don't own a measure that shows centimeters, but it is the same length as most of my other bows. Luthier says that all the frog parts, wrap and screw are silver and not nickel (I don't know how to tell the difference). I read the post about uploading photos and I hope that these are not too large for the forum. I apologize if they are. Thank you in advance for any help or direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Merkel Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 I agree the modus operandi of home invaders isn't to steal violins but leave the cases to throw the coppers off the trail. Tourte on a bow is like Stradivarius inside a violin. I had and old light bow stamped Tourte like yours that was pretty good. It actually had a big knot in it about 2/3 up but it was straight as an arrow. Wasn't it Oistrach who is supposed to have said a bow isn't any good unless it has a knot in it? Defending his bow with at knot in it I assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtone Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Hi distracted cat, welcome to Maestronet. You did well and the experts here will probably need some pics of the screw and slide if you can. They are silver it appears. Pics straight on of the head too. Didn't Nurnberger do some tourte stamped for Wurlitzer?I need that book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Apart from the very early bows made in his father's shop before 1795, Tourte didn't sign/brand his bows. His bows also predate the invention of the underslide ... You have a nice MK bow from the early 20th century - many shops at this time made bows with a Tourte brand, even though the bows themselves have nothing that would remind one of a Tourte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 2 hours ago, martin swan said: a nice MK bow from the early 20th century Agree. For example the rounded rear of the adjuster button would be a typical feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeH Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 11 hours ago, DistractedCat said: Luthier says that all the frog parts, wrap and screw are silver and not nickel (I don't know how to tell the difference). One way to tell is that silver tarnishes black/gray whereas nickel tarnishes greenish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DistractedCat Posted March 21 Author Report Share Posted March 21 5 hours ago, Bill Merkel said: I agree the modus operandi of home invaders isn't to steal violins but leave the cases to throw the coppers off the trail. Tourte on a bow is like Stradivarius inside a violin. I had and old light bow stamped Tourte like yours that was pretty good. It actually had a big knot in it about 2/3 up but it was straight as an arrow. Wasn't it Oistrach who is supposed to have said a bow isn't any good unless it has a knot in it? Defending his bow with at knot in it I assume. Apparently just a good "barn find". It is with not a knot that I can see, but plays light, bright and is very responsive. I am quite enthused by its quickness at both ends. I'm content with this find. Sad story about the violin though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Merkel Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 ^Mine wasn't silver, and yours is likely better than mine. Very good find! The knot was funny but it didn't have any effect that I could discern. The knot was about 2-3 mm in diameter. And some artist really is reported to have said a bow was no good unless it had a knot in it! I only remember reading it because I owned one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violins88 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 A friend lent me this 58 g bow which has “TOURTE” on the frog. comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violadamore Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 40 minutes ago, violins88 said: A friend lent me this 58 g bow which has “TOURTE” on the frog. comments? Sorry to disappoint you, but it's not by Tourte. Where on the frog? I only see it on the stick. Needs work, BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeny Mahon Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Speaking of knots, I have a bow with a knot on the top over the frog that looks like the Eye of Sauron! When seen in direct sunlight it seems to leap out of the depths of the varnish I tried to get a good photo of that but alas my phone is not great. This is the one I got a while back with a fiddle that was horribly damaged in shipping I didn't realize at the time that the metal bit and the collar were intentional, I thought it was a repair. Pretty sure I posted it but can't find the thread right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violins88 Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 @Violadamore My mistake. Yes, it’s on the stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DistractedCat Posted March 22 Author Report Share Posted March 22 18 hours ago, Gtone said: Hi distracted cat, welcome to Maestronet. You did well and the experts here will probably need some pics of the screw and slide if you can. They are silver it appears. Pics straight on of the head too. Didn't Nurnberger do some tourte stamped for Wurlitzer?I need that book. Got it back from the luthier today. He replaced the headplate and I'm not real happy with the result. He also didn't replace the hair and the result is that it's too tight, so I'm leaving it apart until I ca find someone who will take better care of it. I'm including the additional pictures as you suggested. I used a flash on a couple of the pics so there is a slight pinkish color as a result. I had not noticed before, but there appears to be some marks on the underside of the frog. XIV is what I think it says. I'm not sure if they are Roman numerals or initials of someone who worked on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtone Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Yes I would definitely be taking it elsewhere,usually the luthier would clean up the bow as well. But I don't know the terms you/they may have set.Play it for a while see if you like it still. With ID,to help our expert members it is best to get everything in square profile and then they may ask for more detail. Blankface has answered and Martin,that would be what it is,unless someone stated a fair point of return.I would ask Brad Dorsey,a member here,to see about sending to him.Depends on where you are.May not get anymore ID than that, on a MarkneuKirchen (MK)bow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strad O Various Jr. Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 He replaced the headplate tip, not the headplate, to do that he would have to remove the hair, what did he charge you for this?? I guess its remotely possible he could remove the bow hair plug, remove the hair and reinstall it though I've never heard of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Merkel Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 I hope you made him pay you for that repair, instead of the other way around. Instrument repairers who can do passable work are few and far between. The worst is when they do something you didn't even ask them to do and screw that up. Sometimes your only course is sell the result to somebody who's on the same wavelength as the repairer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DistractedCat Posted March 22 Author Report Share Posted March 22 2 hours ago, Strad O Various Jr. said: He replaced the headplate tip, not the headplate, to do that he would have to remove the hair, what did he charge you for this?? I guess its remotely possible he could remove the bow hair plug, remove the hair and reinstall it though I've never heard of that. It's a new headplate altogether. He claims that it is of a new stronger material. The original hair was fine before, but said that when he went to put it back in, he had to retie the head end, and that shortened it. He charged me $100.00 for that, and to replace the missing thumb pad. He also threw in a cake of Pirastro - probably felt guilty for the shoddy work. I just think that a good luthier would have called me to ask if that's what I would have wanted before he put that hair back on it. Perhaps even refused to do that altogether. The headplate doesn't look bad to the naked eye and I suppose it does it's job of protecting the head, so I may just live with that. But now I've lost confidence in this guy's work. I feel like taking it elsewhere to get the new hair, which is a must now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 To be fair it should be noted that fitting a good headplate is usually more expensive than 100 Dollar (at least where I'm living), for good reasons. It's always better not trying to save money at the wrong place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wood Butcher Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Agreed. For a low price, you get what you get. It's not cheaper to have something done twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Merkel Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 ^If only it was that easy! A bungler is as likely as not to charge as much as anybody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DistractedCat Posted March 23 Author Report Share Posted March 23 12 hours ago, Blank face said: To be fair it should be noted that fitting a good headplate is usually more expensive than 100 Dollar (at least where I'm living), for good reasons. It's always better not trying to save money at the wrong place. In this area, $100.00 would be considered fair. And this shop was recommended because I didn't want it treated like a school instrument job. That was the price he quoted because I was getting work on two other bows as well. The guy I would have taken it to before died in 2006 and this area hasn't had a decent luthier since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted March 23 Report Share Posted March 23 5 hours ago, DistractedCat said: I didn't want it treated like a school instrument job. Sadly this headplate looks like a beginner’s attempt. The protruding tip will most probably break off very soon, the rear side is too short to protect anything and there’s a scratch from wood through the liner implying that it happened during the work. The mortise seems to be too long at the front. These are just a few visible points, there could be more. Such a plate should be replaced usually. Your luthier would need a motivation for improving his efforts and skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 On 3/21/2023 at 10:28 AM, DistractedCat said: I am quite enthused by its quickness at both ends. Sounds like a description of a gal I once dated.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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