Salustri at T2

[martin swan]

Here's another example from the illustrious Salustri.

Useful to compare it to other examples by this maker and observe the unique consistencies in his style of making 

https://t2-auctions.com/auctions/lot/?csid=2199797760&cpid=3381166080&filter_key=

 

[Shelbow]

I was having a conversation with @Violadamore about this. He definitely had a style of making.

You can see that in some of the ones which sold through Amati as well.

[Shelbow]

The pin placement on the back is quite consistent

https://app.amati.com/en/auction/1056-amati-specialist-june/301-a-violin-by-mario-salustri-albano-late-20th-century#thumbs-1

https://app.amati.com/en/auction/1059-amati-specialist-october/65-a-violin-by-mario-salustri-albano-late-20th-century#thumbs-2

[Shelbow]

In fact see the whole pride here https://app.amati.com/en/auction/1056-amati-specialist-june?page=15

[martin swan]

And the T2 one is certified!

[Shelbow]

1 minute ago, martin swan said:

And the T2 one is certified!

I was doubtful in the past, but having seen the consistencies in the work (as you say) I am starting to believe it. 

I actually bought a violin from Amati last year that has crazy corners and a really vibrant orange varnish that has Salustri vibes, but it's missing the pins. 

[Blank face]

There was a Berlin postwar amateur maker producing lots of nearly identical fiddles, probably from some rough Mnk parts. A friend of mine had half a dozen of them in all states, white, half-finshed. Maybe his name was Salustrowski, I can't recall it exactly anymore.

[Shelbow]

12 minutes ago, Blank face said:

There was a Berlin postwar amateur maker producing lots of nearly identical fiddles, probably from some rough Mnk parts. A friend of mine had half a dozen of them in all states, white, half-finshed. Maybe his name was Salustrowski, I can't recall it exactly anymore.

This is probably what I bought. Do you have any pictures?

[GeorgeH]

Poor Mario gets no respect. 

 

[Blank face]

44 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

This is probably what I bought. Do you have any pictures?

This was a joke. I recalled the Berlin maker who called himself "Giorgio Ullmanni" after having spent some time in Italy, and the numerous real amateurish makers producing things with bold corners, rough ff and squarish scrolls.

[Shelbow]

4 minutes ago, Blank face said:

This was a joke. I recalled the Berlin maker who called himself "Giorgio Ullmanni" after having spent some time in Italy, and the numerous real amateurish makers producing things with bold corners, rough ff and squarish scrolls.

Oh I understand the Salustrowski joke, but if you have any pictures of amateur German making I would be interested to see 

[Blank face]

Unfortunately I'm usually neither buying nor photographing this type. What I've found in my old pictures was unsigned (so maybe Italian? (-; ), but maybe it clears the point:

[Shelbow]

Looks cool :-)

[Blank face]

Yep. Was another antique shop find. Maybe an early Salustri?

[Violadamore]

6 hours ago, Blank face said:

Yep. Was another antique shop find. Maybe an early Salustri?

Nope, too many points of difference. 

On this subject in general, I've been regularly playing my Salustri now for over 2 1/2 years, and I'm still totally thrilled with it.   Just remember that all violins, even those by the same maker, differ in characteristics, and set-ups will differ as well.  "Your mileage may vary". 

 

[mendicus]

On 2/2/2023 at 1:35 PM, Blank face said:

There was a Berlin postwar amateur maker producing lots of nearly identical fiddles, probably from some rough Mnk parts. A friend of mine had half a dozen of them in all states, white, half-finshed. Maybe his name was Salustrowski, I can't recall it exactly anymore.

I have 5 of them (lot299 from amati) and I can say he clearly haven't used any Mnk parts, if he did, work would be much cleaner:). But he had used nice spruce for tops.

[Blank face]

1 hour ago, mendicus said:

I have 5 of them (lot299 from amati) and I can say he clearly haven't used any Mnk parts, if he did, work would be much cleaner:). But he had used nice spruce for tops.

So the question is, could he make 5 pieces a week?

[mendicus]

45 minutes ago, Blank face said:

So the question is, could he make 5 pieces a week?

he surely couldn't, because he used some arching or graduating system that surely slowed him down(I can assume it from pencil lines of unfinished ones)

[Violadamore]

4 hours ago, mendicus said:

I have 5 of them (lot299 from amati) and I can say he clearly haven't used any Mnk parts, if he did, work would be much cleaner:). But he had used nice spruce for tops.

 

2 hours ago, Blank face said:

So the question is, could he make 5 pieces a week?

 

1 hour ago, mendicus said:

he surely couldn't, because he used some arching or graduating system that surely slowed him down(I can assume it from pencil lines of unfinished ones)

Blankie, I've reported the same characteristics that Mendicus has, on more than one occasion.  The one I have is fully finished, but retains some penciled layout lines and some compass point marks, which, along with the toolmarks show that Salustri carved his parts himself.  The process remains particularly clear on the neck, which was very obviously carved from a solid piece of beech, and was not a bought-in preform.  The beech used for the back and ribs similarly demonstrates how it was laid out with compass and straightedge, eliminating any possibility of the body being a bought-in Schachtel.   The varnish used on mine is a hard oil-based variety, pigmented orange, that is dissimilar to the trade-fiddle varnishes we are all familiar with.  These violins are neither Markies nor Chinese in manufacture and in all probability were entirely made in Albano Laziale by Mario Salustri, exactly as labeled.  

[Blank face]

2 hours ago, Violadamore said:

These violins are neither Markies nor Chinese in manufacture and in all probability were entirely made in Albano Laziale by Mario Salustri, exactly as labeled. 

This doesn’t answer my question. Also „Markies“ were entirely made in the known places, have often pencil marks, were made of solid wood and all that.

[Violadamore]

33 minutes ago, Blank face said:

This doesn’t answer my question. Also „Markies“ were entirely made in the known places, have often pencil marks, were made of solid wood and all that.

To answer your question, there's no evidence that Salustri maintained a high rate of production, just a persistent one over 35 years or so, a position supported by what his son Massimo says online.  https://soundcloud.com/massimosalustri/marios-thing

[mendicus]

2 hours ago, Blank face said:

This doesn’t answer my question. Also „Markies“ were entirely made in the known places, have often pencil marks, were made of solid wood and all that.

Not sure what exactly is your question, but to those here who have ever had Salustri in hand is obvious, that he was amateur, making violins from scratch and not in large numbers. Not that makes them any better or more valuable, there is just not reason to make up theories about his making that are not supported by any facts.

[Blank face]

12 hours ago, mendicus said:

Not sure what exactly is your question, but to those here who have ever had Salustri in hand is obvious, that he was amateur, making violins from scratch and not in large numbers. Not that makes them any better or more valuable, there is just not reason to make up theories about his making that are not supported by any facts.

 

14 hours ago, Violadamore said:

To answer your question, there's no evidence that Salustri maintained a high rate of production, just a persistent one over 35 years or so, a position supported by what his son Massimo says online.  https://soundcloud.com/massimosalustri/marios-thing

I‘m far away from making up any theories, nor dismiss anything. Just asking if the instruments were noticed, certified and put in that price range at auction if his name was indeed Salustrowski and he would have been a decent musician and ambitious amateur maker in, let’s say, Denmark (what’s a nice and lovely country with more than a few makers, too ).

[Violadamore]

1 hour ago, Blank face said:

 

I‘m far away from making up any theories, nor dismiss anything. Just asking if the instruments were noticed, certified and put in that price range at auction if his name was indeed Salustrowski and he would have been a decent musician and ambitious amateur maker in, let’s say, Denmark (what’s a nice and lovely country with more than a few makers, too ).

I admire your crusading zeal, but bashing Salustris along with their sellers and owners won't make the "Italian mystique" disappear.  The one that I have, at least, is a very good solo instrument, which I got at auction for the price of a low-end student fiddle.  Lighten up.  

One also wonders why, if you are so concerned about such things, you aren't busy protesting about how several different recent well-known Italian lineages were (or are) produced under notoriously questionable circumstances (to the extent that experts prefer to not certify them), yet no-one complains when they change hands for five-figure prices.  Salustris are small, rather respectable, potatoes compared to those. 

[mendicus]

2 hours ago, Blank face said:

 

I‘m far away from making up any theories, nor dismiss anything. Just asking if the instruments were noticed, certified and put in that price range at auction if his name was indeed Salustrowski and he would have been a decent musician and ambitious amateur maker in, let’s say, Denmark (what’s a nice and lovely country with more than a few makers, too ).

In that case answer simple: his instruments would worth almost nothing:)