Self-taught violin makers; seconde parte

[Peter K-G]

2 hours ago, MikeC said:

Only 3 out of 5?  They look good to me.   What changes would make them better? 

Still don't know

But it was educative to participate. The best one got 84/100 points. 

What lowered the scores most was:

1. Edge work/corners

2. Varnish (they didn't like shading, but plain and even)

3. G-string "slightly stuck"

• This was the best lesson, Torbjörn has played one of them in Stockholm and was positively surprised, but had some thoughts about G-string also, "too resistant?" He pointed out that the sound post should be moved east. And he started by asking if he could remove excess rosin from the strings, after that it was easier to play.

Here is some info, the scores aren't available anymore:

Competition - Finnish Violin Day 2016 - Peter Grankulla - Soloist Violins (thestradsound.com)

 

[Davide Sora]

2 hours ago, FiddleMkr said:

I read years ago (in the biography by hill) that A. Stradivari’s master violin maker was Nicolo Amati. Is this not true?

I think so, but it is only a hypothesis based on the strong stylistic affinities of Stradivari's early violins with the Amatis, there is no documentary evidence in the Cremona archives. There is also a 1666 violin with an apparently original label that says "Alumnus Nicolaij Amati"  https://tarisio.com/cozio-archive/property/?ID=41284 but when it comes to labels you start walking on thin ice.

 

[JacksonMaberry]

3 hours ago, FiddleMkr said:

I read years ago (in the biography by hill) that A. Stradivari’s master violin maker was Nicolo Amati. Is this not true?

As I understand it, most of that hypothesis rides on what we can see of method, as well as one label in an early Strad which claims he was "alumnus Amati" or something to that effect, but that the church/census records of the period do not show beyond a doubt that Tony apprenticed with Nicolo, whereas those same sources have been key in establishing certain links between other makers. 

[Christopher Jacoby]

The Italian plague came and killed everybody. The church records weren't reliable because 70somethin percent of people had died! The church records at the end of the 1670s through the early 90s were spottier than they ever had been because of it. I can't look at a pre 1700 Strad without seeing the methods of Amati. Makes sense to me.

[JacksonMaberry]

49 minutes ago, Christopher Jacoby said:

The Italian plague came and killed everybody. The church records weren't reliable because 70somethin percent of people had died! The church records at the end of the 1670s through the early 90s were spottier than they ever had been because of it. I can't look at a pre 1700 Strad without seeing the methods of Amati. Makes sense to me.

All good points! And while it makes sense to me, too, as a recovering historian I don't like to make any claims I can't back up without a shadow of doubt. I'm not saying he'd didn't study with lil Nicky, but I won't say he did for sure. Make sense?

[Davide Sora]

11 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

All good points! And while it makes sense to me, too, as a recovering historian I don't like to make any claims I can't back up without a shadow of doubt. I'm not saying he'd didn't study with lil Nicky, but I won't say he did for sure. Make sense?

Perfectly.

[Violadamore]

2 hours ago, Davide Sora said:

I think so, but it is only a hypothesis based on the strong stylistic affinities of Stradivari's early violins with the Amatis, there is no documentary evidence in the Cremona archives. There is also a 1666 violin with an apparently original label that says "Alumnus Nicolaij Amati"  https://tarisio.com/cozio-archive/property/?ID=41284 but when it comes to labels you start walking on thin ice.

 

What if you flipped it over, and found "Alumnus Francesco Rugeri" on the other side? 

[Christopher Jacoby]

1 hour ago, JacksonMaberry said:

All good points! And while it makes sense to me, too, as a recovering historian I don't like to make any claims I can't back up without a shadow of doubt. I'm not saying he'd didn't study with lil Nicky, but I won't say he did for sure. Make sense?

aye!

[JacksonMaberry]

1 hour ago, Christopher Jacoby said:

aye!

Yarrrr!

[Davide Sora]

4 hours ago, Violadamore said:

What if you flipped it over, and found "Alumnus Francesco Rugeri" on the other side? 

It cannot be ruled out, all the ancient Cremonese luthiers are linked to the same construction method, so it becomes difficult to say who learned from whom, but Amati remains at the top of the list.

[Evan Smith]

On 1/9/2023 at 2:46 PM, Wood Butcher said:

This is going to be a difficult list to make, but there are some very common issues we see.

1. Wrong dimensions.
Most amateurs seem to end up making things that have grown bigger than they are supposed to be. Constant errors in measuring and shaping, particularly of the ribs, leads to a bloated instrument, which is sorely in need of a diet.

2. Poor joints/centre joints.
It's a difficult skill to learn, and people struggle with this. Often taking shortcuts, or simply getting frustrated after many hours, and having a 'that will do attitude'. Some woods are difficult to deal with, and this exacerbates the lack of skill.
Linings don't fit well, with numerous gaps.

3. Strange arching.
Most amateurs produce a typical type of arching, with very little recurve, which looks nothing like the arching of a good instrument. It might rise too abruptly, or be too flat, but a lack of knowledge always betrays them.

4. Poor wood finishing.
Frequently, amateurs don't know how to sharpen tools correctly, and the wood often ends up torn from the plane, or grim scraper marks all over the place. Finishing the scroll seems to present great difficulty too, and one of the most obvious sign of amateur work, where there is a distinct lack of confidence in the cutting, and a limited understanding of how a fine scroll looks from all aspects.
Fingerboards, often exhibiting a lot of tear out, combined with too much sanding and an inconsistent shape.

5. Neck shape.
I would probably put this above anything else. It seems that for amateurs, this is one part that they never get right. A clubby neck, like half a circle, with a poorly shaped, straight sided board plonked on. Dreadful shaping at the chin and heel. Neck shaft very unevenly shaped, usually asymmetrical too.

6. Set-up.
A real art in itself, and something which can make or break any instrument.
Cheap bridge, poorly fitted, set at the wrong angle. Often the radius is wrong, and the sole focus is on getting the strings certain heights from the fingerboard, even if that means the bow will hit the edge, every time you try and play the E string. Soundpost never fits, wrong tension. It's hard to do, so just give up. It's inside anyway, so who can see...
Nut shaped so that it is wider than the fingerboard, too high or low, string grooves of the wrong diameters, not evenly placed. Corners of the nut sharp like a razor.

7. Varnishing.
As much as the varnish itself, usually the colour is just gruesome. An odd mix of pale and pasty, combined with a colour tone that is very unnatural. Lacks any kind of depth optically.

8. Pegbox shaping & peg holes.
Often the walls are too thick, and the peg holes set wrong in relation to the pegbox floor / ends. Often resulting in strings binding against the pegbox floor under the pegs. Pegs don't fit either, often with the shafts all chewed up by a blunt shaver, and the collar of at least one peg chipped. String holes drilled too far over, so that soon, the pegs have moved in so far, that the string ends start to bind on the opposite side of the pegbox.
Peg holes poorly placed, so that the strings are dragging over the other pegs. Results in tuning problems, and string breakage.

9. Saddle.
Keeps coming loose and tilts over. Seems easy to cut a neat rebate, and then plane two faces of the saddle square to each other, but when you are working in a shed, and using 60g sandpaper instead, well, the results are inevitable...

10. We could go on, for the reality is, that each and every part of it could be wrong, and probably is, to an extent.

 

I think this is a good list,