Tigger Posted December 17, 2022 Author Report Posted December 17, 2022 They seem to be replaced rings of wood. I'll see if I can get a better picture.
Shelbow Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tigger said: They seem to be replaced rings of wood. I'll see if I can get a better picture. No the grain lines are matching, as Fiddle Doug says these are clamp marks. Someone maybe went a bit heavy with the clamps whilst regluing something.
Don Noon Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Shelbow said: Someone maybe went a bit heavy with the clamps whilst regluing something. Likely they only had steel C-clamps in the garage.
nathan slobodkin Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 From what I can see this looks like an amateur made violin and I suspect wood was removed from the outside of the arching with a Forstner bit or something similar. Where the arching swells out of the corner the mark of the bit didn't get completely removed.
jacobsaunders Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, nathan slobodkin said: From what I can see this looks like an amateur made violin and I suspect wood was removed from the outside of the arching with a Forstner bit or something similar. Where the arching swells out of the corner the mark of the bit didn't get completely removed. Doesn't look amateur to me
Bill Yacey Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 Do all four corners have the same mark? I don't believe the forstner bit theory, as there is too much curvature in the arching there for it to have left a full circle mark.
nathan slobodkin Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said: Doesn't look amateur to me OK. Looking more at the second photo the inelegant purfling looks awfully crude although if it is old obviously my suggestion is incorrect. I'd bow to your opinion as identifying Fiddles by a couple of corner photos is way past my talents. What do you think they are? They seem too accurate to be clamp marks and look cut to me.
nathan slobodkin Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bill Yacey said: Do all four corners have the same mark? I don't believe the forstner bit theory, as there is too much curvature in the arching there for it to have left a full circle mark. Yeah I was wondering that too. If so maybe decoration? A full set of pictures would be helpful.
David Burgess Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 Makers can have all sorts of weird layout theories, making use of circles or compass arcs.
jacobsaunders Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 22 minutes ago, nathan slobodkin said: OK. Looking more at the second photo the inelegant purfling looks awfully crude although if it is old obviously my suggestion is incorrect. I'd bow to your opinion as identifying Fiddles by a couple of corner photos is way past my talents. What do you think they are? They seem too accurate to be clamp marks and look cut to me. I had wondered if the circles were drawn on with a compass, after all one can see the pin prick in the centre, perhaps a marking to apply some circular decoration afterwards. But I don’t know, and they are a mystery to me too
jacobsaunders Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 1 hour ago, mood2000 said: C-Clamp And why pray, would anyone clamp one of those on his fiddle at that place?
deans Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 maybe they were thinking of inlaying some sort of decoration and then changed their mind
nathan slobodkin Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 Clamp marks would be crushed not scribed or cut. You see clamp marks fairly frequently but they don't look like that.
nathan slobodkin Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 Tigger, Do you know the origin of the fiddle? New? Old? Labeled?
Ron1 Posted December 18, 2022 Report Posted December 18, 2022 I would guess some original carved circular "button" applied decorations have be removed. Differences in the finish are evident within and without the circles.
Bill Yacey Posted December 18, 2022 Report Posted December 18, 2022 3 hours ago, Ron1 said: I would guess some original carved circular "button" applied decorations have be removed. Differences in the finish are evident within and without the circles. If that was the case, why would they have scribed around the decorations?
Bill Yacey Posted December 18, 2022 Report Posted December 18, 2022 The other thing that negates the forstner bit theory is that the centering brad point of a forstner bit would have left a much deeper hole before the outer spurs started cutting.
Tigger Posted December 18, 2022 Author Report Posted December 18, 2022 (edited) Thanks all for your comments. Its a tricky one! Some more photos here. To my eyes with the instrument in my hand they look like circular fillets of wood inserted. Hopefully the new photos show why but I'll bow to your collective expertise. The instrument is a large 17" viola. Reduced in the middle but looks whole around the purfling so unless re-purfled entirely the edges you see are correct and original. There are only these two circles at the top corners, none at the lower Front dendros to 1670 viola is complete. For now I'll just leave these here as the original question was about these circles.... Edited December 18, 2022 by Tigger
Wood Butcher Posted December 18, 2022 Report Posted December 18, 2022 To answer your original question, I think it's safe to say that no, no one has seen this before. If you were hoping it's a feature to identify the maker, it will not be.
Tigger Posted December 18, 2022 Author Report Posted December 18, 2022 15 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said: To answer your original question, I think it's safe to say that no, no one has seen this before. If you were hoping it's a feature to identify the maker, it will not be. Yes I can see that. I was asking more out of curiosity and research rather than thinking of a particular maker or attribution- such a unique thing to find on an instrument. Who knows what they are or why they are there! I really appreciate all your comments
Michael Richwine Posted December 18, 2022 Report Posted December 18, 2022 45 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said: To answer your original question, I think it's safe to say that no, no one has seen this before. If you were hoping it's a feature to identify the maker, it will not be. I've certainly seen that before on badly handled furniture, but not on violins. My first mental image when I saw the picture was some guy with a bottle of white glue and a light duty Pony brand f-clamp. The fixed side doesn't work so well, and I don't know for sure about the size of the swivel pad, but that's certainly the first thing I flashed on, just as the other posters immediately thought of C-clamps in Americanese.
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