Help / improving sound quality

[slavne]

I am not a violin maker, just recently very inclined to do my part to improve the sound of my violin after many years of playing. Maybe you could give me your opinion just generally in what direction I should try to do the sound improvement? Here are my data:

Sound:
--- Strong sound projection, even excessive. After improving the bridge by doing it myself according to Internet usual measures, the sound got considerably even more strength and improved color. However the problem exists: A and E gets definately too open sound, almost ring of excessive strength. Interestingly, even with that excessive strength, when hardly pressed bow in high E range instrument does not crack sound, it keeps it!
---  G gets just an indication of possible wolf tone, G is excessively deep. A little harder to keep clear tone everywhere on G.

Construction:
--- New bridge made by myself, precisely to usual measures from Internet (used mostly maestro Davide Sora web instructions), very satisfied with the result. Sides of bridge happens to be exactly projections of the sides of the fingerboard. Bridge is exactly 325mm from the peg.
--- Bas bar: bas bar is positioned 3mm closer to the central line measured from the outside of nearest bridge leg.
--- Sound post: never moved by myself yet. Circumference line of sound post exactly alined with the bridge leg outer side, and has 3mm distance from the bridge leg (towards the tailpiece).

My need:
  definately could sacrifice for less strength of sound, but to achieve two goals - loss of ringing on E string and clearer G sound. Would not heart if getting better color as well (maybe buying Guarneri could solve the problem, right?). 

What is your opinion about this?

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by slavne

[donbarzino]

You could try moving the bridge back towards the tailpiece a mm or two

to simulate moving the sound post up towards the bridge until you learn how to

adjust the sound post.

[nathan slobodkin]

You could also try going to a competent violin  maker and asking them to adjust your violin.

[slavne]

8 hours ago, donbarzino said:

You could try moving the bridge back towards the tailpiece a mm or two

to simulate moving the sound post up towards the bridge until you learn how to

adjust the sound post.

Yes, quite a nice advice: E string stopped ringing when bridge is moved about ~1mm towards tailpiece. That might be the way to go with sound post accordingly. I expect some tools to arrive to do it easier so then certainly I shall move a bit my sound post.

Thank you for your advice!

[FiddleDoug]

Show us good pictures of the bridge, nut, tailpiece, etc.. Also, what kind of strings are you using, and how old are they.

There are lots of things that interact and affect the sound. I usually start with the soundpost centered behind the bridge foot (you mention that yours is aligned with the outer edge).

[Mat Roop]

I would move the post so that it is equidistant from the centerline of the body as the Bass bar.

Verify also:  1-that the top center seam is in fact the centerline of the instrument. 2- that the endpin is in line with the centerline of the instrument. 3- that the centerline of the fingerboard points exactly at the end pin.  4- That the projection of the fingerboard produces a bridge height ( center top of instrument to top of bridge) of 32mm  +/_ 1mm but no more that +/_ 2mm.

1,2& 3 are interrelated and if one is off then that will take some consideration.

Have fun!... Mat

[slavne]

30 minutes ago, Mat Roop said:

I would move the post so that it is equidistant from the centerline of the body as the Bass bar.

Verify also:  1-that the top center seam is in fact the centerline of the instrument. 2- that the endpin is in line with the centerline of the instrument. 3- that the centerline of the fingerboard points exactly at the end pin.  4- That the projection of the fingerboard produces a bridge height ( center top of instrument to top of bridge) of 32mm  +/_ 1mm but no more that +/_ 2mm.

1,2& 3 are interrelated and if one is off then that will take some consideration.

Have fun!... Mat

I shall definately move the post as you said, with a new post made for this. 

Everything is nicely centered. Bridge height is 31.5mm.

Thank you Mat, that will be interesting! 

[JacksonMaberry]

Improving the fit of the bridge feet will also work wonders. From the fourth image, although it is a bit unfocused, it appears that the insides of the bridge feet are not in complete and uninterrupted contact with the belly, and they really need to be. This was one of the skills that took me the longest to acquire, but it is worth investing the time. A slip of carbon paper can be useful, although some of my colleagues don't use any such guides and still achieve a flawless fit. I'm still using the carbon paper.

[slavne]

1 hour ago, JacksonMaberry said:

Improving the fit of the bridge feet will also work wonders. From the fourth image, although it is a bit unfocused, it appears that the insides of the bridge feet are not in complete and uninterrupted contact with the belly, and they really need to be. This was one of the skills that took me the longest to acquire, but it is worth investing the time. A slip of carbon paper can be useful, although some of my colleagues don't use any such guides and still achieve a flawless fit. I'm still using the carbon paper.

Understood. Thanks for the tip. That was my second bridge. I was using white talc  which is not so visible for fitting correction. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by slavne

[JacksonMaberry]

1 hour ago, slavne said:

Understood. Thanks for the tip. That was my second bridge. I was using white talc  which is not so visible for fitting correction. 

It will take time, but you will get there.

[FiddleDoug]

I haven't watched David's videos, so I not sure if he covered this. The side photo of your bridge makes it look kind of thick. I usually go for a final thickness of 4.5 mm when I'm doing a bridge. I'll also agree with Jackson about the inside  of the bridge feet. They are way too thin to really get a good fit to the top.

Edit: I also noticed that the string slots in the nut appear to be way too deep.

[slavne]

On 12/13/2022 at 8:53 PM, JacksonMaberry said:

It will take time, but you will get there.

Many additional thanks to Jackson and the others who pinpointed the need to correct the bridge. I did additional fitting of the bridge more carefully, and you know what? Exactly as Jackson predicted, the violin simply flied, the better timber appeared on E string (overtones), the sound is even stronger but I have no impression of ringing, probably because of higher register filling the output. Cannot be better with this bridge I guess.

Here is the improved bridge:

The type of sound is a sort of metallic (as it already was), which is probably often the case for the loud violin generally speaking. It is interesting experience how the bridge added fullness to the sound. 

People objected the small height of bridge feet. The reason for that is that I was not able to achieve the required distance between the A string and the heart of 9 to 10mm. When used high heart bridge accidentally, I obtained that critical distance of about 7mm and the tone was extremely closed, nasal to the extreme. So I concluded that distance from A to heart is probably critical and for that reason I used the Aubert low heart bridge this time, but also the legs had to be lower to fulfil the requirement of 9 to 10mm. The situation now is acceptable. Maybe I should search for some other type of bridge that would allow me higher feet?

I am almost afraid of replacing the sound post with other one more balanced, as MatRoop suggested, because the violin sound quite acceptable right now IMO. Still, the question what sort of timber and strength could I get very much intrigues me if the sound post is replaced to more balanced position. Here is how the violin sounds now:

https://disk.yandex.com/i/UqBoR-O_4zE5fg

Or

https://disk.yandex.com/i/Y4CS3WW5SR0Afg

Edited December 15, 2022 by slavne