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Brompton's Auction


Ray Weaver
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I am just curious. Is anyone is surprised by the low percentage of successful auctions on the largely concluded Brompton's auction. I haven't really followed results there previously, but it seems sold items are a much lower percentage of total items than I am used to seeing at Tarisio. Is that normally the case or is this just the result of somewhat turbulent times? I am planning to visit Tarisio and also the Reed-Yeboah Contemporary Makers exhibition that overlap next week.

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4 hours ago, Ray Weaver said:

I am just curious. Is anyone is surprised by the low percentage of successful auctions on the largely concluded Brompton's auction. I haven't really followed results there previously, but it seems sold items are a much lower percentage of total items than I am used to seeing at Tarisio. Is that normally the case or is this just the result of somewhat turbulent times? I am planning to visit Tarisio and also the Reed-Yeboah Contemporary Makers exhibition that overlap next week.

My 2 cents is that most if not all items in Tarisio fine auctions are in Good to very Good condition and players participate equally with dealers. With Brompton's, there is more emphasis on the rarity of the maker and many instruments need plenty of work. Most of the cellos have back soundpost cracks and many bows and violins have significant condition issues. With Ingles it is even more. I would advise not to bid on Ingles until you see the condition report. The pictures make the instruments look pristine while the condition report after you receive it is totally the opposite. Also, with Ingles you need to request for a condition report which is sent the next day.

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3 hours ago, Ernee said:

Will the results be made public?  Curious on a couple of items (in a general way)

Brompton's offer buyers the option to have the winning bid of the item they won omitted from the end results. This usually leads to a lot missing information at the end of the sale. You need to watch the sale live to know what really happens.

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On 10/31/2022 at 9:04 PM, Yogic said:

My 2 cents is that most if not all items in Tarisio fine auctions are in Good to very Good condition and players participate equally with dealers. With Brompton's, there is more emphasis on the rarity of the maker and many instruments need plenty of work. Most of the cellos have back soundpost cracks and many bows and violins have significant condition issues. With Ingles it is even more. I would advise not to bid on Ingles until you see the condition report. The pictures make the instruments look pristine while the condition report after you receive it is totally the opposite. Also, with Ingles you need to request for a condition report which is sent the next day.

For the record since people will read this for years to come, I don't think this really reflects reality. I wonder how often you have been in London and have had the chance to compare what's on offer at the various sales?

Every auction house has its own strategy - they are all successful.

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5 minutes ago, martin swan said:

For the record since people will read this for years to come, I don't think this really reflects reality. I wonder how often you have been in London and have had the chance to compare what's on offer at the various sales?

Every auction house has its own strategy - they are all successful.

Have visited all and its based on my opinion. And not all auction houses are successful. Some have failed miserably like Freemans Music Auction or Kestenbaum Auctions.

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2 hours ago, Yogic said:

Have visited all and its based on my opinion. And not all auction houses are successful. Some have failed miserably like Freemans Music Auction or Kestenbaum Auctions.

The politics of what happens within any business is sometimes is humourous and otherwise tragic. I am simplifying here. I understand the stresses as a friends' sister worked in at a "house." 

Businesses, though our opinions might be singular, are made up of many personalities and experts ( as are dealers, universities. ) Auction houses take on many risks, some of which require a degree of expertise. I have a piece of fine art on the bubble. Worth a lot of very little. Who is wiling to take that risk? Usually the bidders. Sellers generally desires the largest pay. I will keep this oddity of the early 20th century but there is no one living to authenticate this work. But perhaps worth $xk or $x00k?

There is risk. Those who stay in business buck up. 

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3 hours ago, GoPractice said:

The politics of what happens within any business is sometimes is humourous and otherwise tragic. I am simplifying here. I understand the stresses as a friends' sister worked in at a "house." 

Businesses, though our opinions might be singular, are made up of many personalities and experts ( as are dealers, universities. ) Auction houses take on many risks, some of which require a degree of expertise. I have a piece of fine art on the bubble. Worth a lot of very little. Who is wiling to take that risk? Usually the bidders. Sellers generally desires the largest pay. I will keep this oddity of the early 20th century but there is no one living to authenticate this work. But perhaps worth $xk or $x00k?

There is risk. Those who stay in business buck up. 

True. Martin was saying each auction house has its own strategy and all are successful. It is a totally wrong statement

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1 hour ago, Yogic said:

True. Martin was saying each auction house has its own strategy and all are successful. It is a totally wrong statement

How is Martin's statement wrong? Both Tarisio and Bromtons are very successful establishments. I've personally dealt with both and they absolutely have their unique way of doing business. Both houses turning millions in revenue...

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3 hours ago, germain said:

How is Martin's statement wrong? Both Tarisio and Bromtons are very successful establishments. I've personally dealt with both and they absolutely have their unique way of doing business. Both houses turning millions in revenue...

He made a blanket statement that all auction houses are successful. That's not the case. I have seen Freemans and Kestenbaum go belly side up in this business

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Being rather interested in auction houses in general and my own in particular, I thought I would add a few of my own suggestions, for what they are worth.

Firstly @martin swan  while you may be correcting in ascribing a strategy to all the auction houses, I think it is unlikely that much of their character comes from this.

Both their ownership structure and the 'immediate' nature of auction houses' business models, lend themselves to a very reactive approach. I don't mean that we don't have strategies, but I think that most auction houses gain their character more from their DNA than from a grand vision.

There are qualities that we all have in some measure which play into the auction houses. At its core, perhaps, an appetite for risk, knowledge and integrity. On the whole though I think these are more issues of ethos than strategy.

(Side note - I took ages to write this. I don't think the fifth draft is any more cogent than the first - am happy to clarify if I have called it badly)

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Hi Jamie

i was more meaning that each auction house has a strategy in relation to setting original estimates and aftersales - it’s clear that there’s been a bit of trial and error over the last 5 years as everyone has gone fully online, and I agree with you that each house’s formula is arrived at through experience.
Each has ended up with a slightly different approach and in my view the number of items sold in the initial auction is not a very significant metric …

Yogic seems to be unusually keen on Tarisio, but this is no big surprise as Tarisio is optimised to appeal to people like Yogic.

 

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5 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Each has ended up with a slightly different formula, and in my view the number of items sold in the initial auction is not a very significant metric …

Do you think so? I genuinely find that interesting.

After each auction we unpick the stats to work out what we are doing right and what we are doing wrong, a large percentage of after-sales is definitely one which would earn me a frosty look from The Boss.

Perhaps we need to meet up for a pint in the run up to Christmas? I am very much in a listening frame of mind at the moment.

 

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19 minutes ago, jamesbuchanan said:

Do you think so? I genuinely find that interesting.

After each auction we unpick the stats to work out what we are doing right and what we are doing wrong, a large percentage of after-sales is definitely one which would earn me a frosty look from The Boss.

Perhaps we need to meet up for a pint in the run up to Christmas? I am very much in a listening frame of mind at the moment.

 

Happy to sit over a pint but you’ll forgive me if i don’t help you to become more successful - unless you’re offering a partnership of course :D

And congrats on your Capicchioni which was fantastic!

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2 hours ago, martin swan said:

Hi Jamie

i was more meaning that each auction house has a strategy in relation to setting original estimates and aftersales - it’s clear that there’s been a bit of trial and error over the last 5 years as everyone has gone fully online, and I agree with you that each house’s formula is arrived at through experience.
Each has ended up with a slightly different approach and in my view the number of items sold in the initial auction is not a very significant metric …

Yogic seems to be unusually keen on Tarisio, but this is no big surprise as Tarisio is optimised to appeal to people like Yogic.

 

Consistency of offerings earn my praise. I don't have any soft spots for Tarisio or Amati etc. My response was to the OP who mentioned he sees more after sales at Brompton's than at Tarisio and I gave him/ her my opinion on what the reason could be. You have not come up with any specific reason behind it but talk about strategies. I don't think Brompton's has a strategy of having so many  unsold items even after the After Sales. A combination of marketing, carefully selecting the portfolio for consignment, ensuring condition is optimum can give you a more successful outcome. As simple as that.

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2 hours ago, jamesbuchanan said:

Do you think so? I genuinely find that interesting.

After each auction we unpick the stats to work out what we are doing right and what we are doing wrong, a large percentage of after-sales is definitely one which would earn me a frosty look from The Boss.

Perhaps we need to meet up for a pint in the run up to Christmas? I am very much in a listening frame of mind at the moment.

 

@jamesbuchananI would be wary of having a drink with someone who believes the number of items sold in an auction  is not a significant metric. Anyway, this auction of your was very good and although I lost on a few items I liked I did manage to buy quite a few. Merry Xmas !

 

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3 hours ago, Yogic said:

@jamesbuchananI would be wary of having a drink with someone who believes the number of items sold in an auction  is not a significant metric. 

 

Jamie and I know each other well and I’m sure we’ll have a drink together whether you advise it or not.

You misunderstood me. In my opinion the significant metric is the total value of items sold, including aftersales.

Thats’s not information that’s easy to collate since Tarisio are the only auction house that makes it public.

 

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5 hours ago, Yogic said:

A combination of marketing, carefully selecting the portfolio for consignment, ensuring condition is optimum can give you a more successful outcome. As simple as that.

Damn, Bromptons must be pretty gutted they didn't think of that ...

Instead they just had to settle for selling a Joseph Filius, a Vuillaume, a Ruggieri, 3 (was it really 3) Nicolo Gaglianos, a Landolfi, a Parker viola and a few other crappy things. Oh a mint Enrico Rocca, Leandro Bisiach (or was it 2 Leandro Bisiachs)?

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