Davide Sora Posted November 2, 2022 Report Posted November 2, 2022 On 10/30/2022 at 2:31 AM, Urban Luthier said: Yep too small. From the ct scan it really looks like a g form but I could be wrong. Regardless the poster is off. The best match of the Messiah looks like the one with the PG form, which is not very different from G in overall dimensions anyway.
Urban Luthier Posted November 2, 2022 Report Posted November 2, 2022 5 hours ago, Davide Sora said: The best match of the Messiah looks like the one with the PG form, which is not very different from G in overall dimensions anyway. it appears you are correct! I traced the outline from the Messiah CT Scan PG overlay awhile back and it looks like a dead match for PG! regarding the PG vs G... according to Pollens when the PG and G are overlaid, it appears the G is wider and longer in the lower bouts. is that actually true?
Davide Sora Posted November 2, 2022 Report Posted November 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Urban Luthier said: it appears you are correct! I traced the outline from the Messiah CT Scan PG overlay awhile back and it looks like a dead match for PG! regarding the PG vs G... according to Pollens when the PG and G are overlaid, it appears the G is wider and longer in the lower bouts. is that actually true? Yep, but not that much. My best guess is that the G (dated 1708) is the remake of the PG (dated 1689). I think that Stradivari used the PG to trace the G on the new piece of wood by simply overlaying it, then leaving the mark of the tracing. Some other small differences may have arisen from the working without maniacally attempting to reproduce the PG, just wanting to redo its large model (Grande, G) . No longer being the first large form (Prima Grande, PG), he omitted the P. These are just my fantasies, but the match between PG and Messiah had been confirmed by the studies made here in Cremona during his stay at the Violin Museum, which can be found in the published book "The absolute Stradivari the Messie violin". https://www.cremonabooks.com/eng/shop_dettaglio.php?id=3103
HoGo Posted November 3, 2022 Report Posted November 3, 2022 I see the older Strad posters just as nice wallpapers, not as technical drawings. Even some of the measurements are sometimes questionable (when you compare numbers from several sources like Biddulph book they are sometimes off, you can only guess which one is correct). The newer editions seem to be better in terms of dimensions but still not perfect because photography has its limits. Often you can see that the Photo editing for the posters or books likely cropped the very edges of plates that were too shiny to discern from background. That might result in inconsistency in outline dimensions. When I wanted reliable outlines I scanned poster into PC, scanned/ downloaded good photographs and found out all measurements of given instrument from as many sources I coud. I take one good picture of back as base (preferrably CT even if at lower resolution) and measure precisely length/widths from picture (keeping eye on possible cropped edges) and calculate how much I need to enlarge/shrink the picture to get real size (in percents). Usually I find that widths percentage matches closely or the percentages grow from upper to lower (or vice versa) suggesting the picture was taken with center of lens above or below center of body making upper or lower part wider. The length percentage from posters rarely matches the widths which is indicator that printing process was not carefully done. With a bit of transformations in Photoshop I can get the outline match measurements very accurately (assuming you best guessed which ones are most reliable). Then I follow and resize other pictures to match this one - you can often match partial pictures by matching grain lines or dents and create patchwork of clear pictures that will give you good details of edgework. Tracing the shapes with good precision and not too much "smoothing" is another hard job, you need to know where to put the line. The position of f holes or exact shape of scroll is even harder to do because of the 3D nature of the curves and source outlines are highly dependant on quality of photography and direct measurements. Here the CT is best source. The CT scans apeear to be best source of precise measurements but need to be also printed in correct size on posters. Printing in correct size is no problem these days and good paper doesn't expand/shrink with humidity anywhere close to wood in the same conditions. I've produced some F-5 mandolin drawings this way.
Peter K-G Posted November 5, 2022 Report Posted November 5, 2022 On 11/2/2022 at 3:30 AM, JacksonMaberry said: Pinned thread "Strad and other models database" or something like that, also @Peter K-Gs website Here is the direct link http://www.thestradsound.com/maestronet/stradivari-forma-by-addie Unfortunately the site is built on classic Google themes that no longer works. I plan to rebuild them. I miss "Addie" (I got to know his real name). Humble guy that gave a lot, didn't ask for anything in return. I bought him the book he wanted in return for all his work with the drawings. They really are his legacy.
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