Tuning the soundpost

[Marty Kasprzyk]

11 hours ago, Mike_Danielson said:

Anyone remember?  There used to be a lady that could psychically (I may have mis-spelled this) adjust your instrument for improved sound.  You would call her up and talk to her about your instrument.  She would (for a fee) go into a trance and send adjustments to your instrument.  

On another issue, this message has gone "off the rails."  Oh well, I prefer fantasy to reality, anymore.  

Mike D

You might be referring to Deena Zalkind Spear.  She wrote the Book "Ears of the Angels" which she published in 2002 by her self under the name of Singing Woods Press.  

Singing Woods is the name of Robert Spear (recently passed away) and her impressive instrument making shop and home near Ithaca NY.

I'm a retired mechanical engineer and I try to apply scientific principles to all my experiments but the forward of her book by Philip D. Pan says:

"I Have had to conclude that the laws of physics, as commonly accepted in the scientific community are severely limited and insufficient to explain the reality as I have observed it." 

So this book is a direct affront and insult to me. It's a great read and I highly recommend it.

[Don Noon]

2 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

the forward of her book by Philip D. Pan says:

"I Have had to conclude that the laws of physics, as commonly accepted in the scientific community are severely limited and insufficient to explain the reality as I have observed it." 

A single, proven example of the laws of physics being broken would be enough to invalidate it, and a huge shock to the scientific community.

I keep watching for a machine to turn on, only later to discover I had forgotten to plug it in.  And definitely it would be nice for the laws of gravity and aerodynamics to take a break so I could fly.  

Having the laws of physics as a reliable set of rules means we can use them to send vehicles to Mars, among billions of other things that happen every day.  But I suppose it is only those unprovable, unrepeatable exceptions that are observed by certain people.  Either that, or their understanding and perception of reality are severely limited and insufficent. 

The physics of acoustics is exceptionally complicated, and gets infinitely so when you include human hearing, perception, and emotional response to it.  Even the physics part of the violin is currently resistant to full analysis and understanding... only because it's really complicated.

[James M. Jones]

And the emotional response to it. Lol the possibility is indeed infinite! 

Could it be that Tuning a sound post provides an emotional platform to feel good about ones work.? 

In a world so full of successful people , very successful people , it’s hard to find that “one thing”  that allows an individual to stand out and be special.... having the ability to actually tune sound posts, end pins tuning pegs , string nuts and peg boxes.... that’s something special.... real special.... something to feel good about. Lol 

 

[David Burgess]

Marty, I wasn't going to mention any names, but Deena Spear is a most interesting person to talk to, and I own (or once owned) an autographed copy of her book. Sorry to hear that Robert Spear has passed away. We once had him as a guest presenter at Oberlin, and I recall him as being a strong devotee of the theories of Carleen Hutchins.

[Don Noon]

24 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

theories of Carleen Hutchins.

To me, a "theory" is more about making a logical guess from known/measured information and physics.  Perhaps there was some of that, but most of it looked to me like a conclusion in search of some science-ish measurements.

[Ganymede Piggot]

3 hours ago, Don Noon said:

A single, proven example of the laws of physics being broken would be enough to invalidate it, and a huge shock to the scientific community.

At the frontiers, aren't the laws of physics broken and re-written all the time?

[Violadamore]

33 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

At the frontiers, aren't the laws of physics broken and re-written all the time?

IMHO, not really, though it may look that way to the innumerate public.  What actually happens is that existing theory is extended and restructured to absorb new discoveries, but it's not like having Blish's Black Easter or Heinlein's Waldo & Magic, Inc. suddenly erupt before us, and cause a full validation of sorcery.  For instance, Newton's laws may be reformulated (and complicated with new mathematics that Newton never envisioned) to handle relativity, but they aren't repealed or invalidated. 

[MikeC]

Since temptation is the only thing I can't resist...  

Which laws of physics have been broken and re-written?  As someone who dabbles in physics, I'd like to know.

anyway.  I have a new theory or phrase I coined some time ago but no one noticed.   I call it the homeopathic theory of violin tuning.   There seems to be a few practitioners around. 

[MikeC]

4 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

IMHO, not really, though it may look that way to the innumerate public.  What actually happens is that existing theory is extended and restructured to absorb new discoveries, but it's not like having Blish's Black Easter or Heinlein's Waldo & Magic, Inc. suddenly erupt before us, and cause a full validation of sorcery.  For instance, Newton's laws may be reformulated (and complicated with new mathematics that Newton never envisioned) to handle relativity, but they aren't repealed or invalidated. 

Dang, I was about to say the laws of thermodynamics have never been broken and re-formulated but you said it better.

[MikeC]

On 10/18/2022 at 2:03 PM, David Rosales said:

Maybe it only makes sense as part of his larger system?

 

http://www.violinresearch.com/

 

and it’s research-based so it’s legit.

You don't often see real webpages on the internet anymore.  I miss web 1.0  

Every thing is commercials in this latest version of the internet.  

[Marty Kasprzyk]

4 hours ago, James M. Jones said:

And the emotional response to it. Lol the possibility is indeed infinite! 

Could it be that Tuning a sound post provides an emotional platform to feel good about ones work.? 

In a world so full of successful people , very successful people , it’s hard to find that “one thing”  that allows an individual to stand out and be special.... having the ability to actually tune sound posts, end pins tuning pegs , string nuts and peg boxes.... that’s something special.... real special.... something to feel good about. Lol 

 

Deena's section "The Soundpost" seems reasonable to me.  See describes what the violin maker Sergio Peresson had taught her.  She also understood the emotional platform you mentioned and attached is a quote she used in her book:

quote.pdf

[Ganymede Piggot]

1 hour ago, MikeC said:

Since temptation is the only thing I can't resist...  

Which laws of physics have been broken and re-written?  As someone who dabbles in physics, I'd like to know.

None, because as soon as it happens the laws are simultaneously adjusted 

The problem is soundpost adjustment by phone can't be experimentally proven or disproven.  All you've got is it doesn't make any sense, and I agree...  Arts is not sciences.  If a particular soundpost adjustment was nothing but going into the back room and drinking coffee, and the customer is thrilled with a change that didn't happen, is it a valid soundpost adjustment?  In order for it to be valid does there have to be some more or less random physical disturbance that the customer perceives as improvement?

[James M. Jones]

2 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

Deena's section "The Soundpost" seems reasonable to me.  See describes what the violin maker Sergio Peresson had taught her.  She also understood the emotional platform you mentioned and attached is a quote she used in her book:

quote.pdf 548.95 kB · 11 downloads

Almost as good as my dog, is good enough for me! Lol

[James M. Jones]

3 hours ago, MikeC said:

You don't often see real webpages on the internet anymore.  I miss web 1.0  

Every thing is commercials in this latest version of the internet.  

Rub tones .... gotta love the rub tones especially the end pin rub tones , somewhere between 21- and 23 ... the sweet spot .

 

[Dr. Mark]

4 hours ago, MikeC said:

Which laws of physics have been broken and re-written?

It depends on when we think consistencies, for lack of a better term, become 'Laws' and when inconsistencies invalidate 'Laws'.  Newton's Laws, for example, apply in the local limit of GR but in general...they haven't been broken per se or need to be re-written per se as long as our system remains very local.  They are, however, fundamentally incorrect in any system (in contradiction to a statement above) in particular because they inherently assume action at at distance, e.g. in part because of this they fail to predict the precession of the perihelion of Mercury.  Light poses another problem for Newton.  Every proposition has it's critics....  Ever since Newton penned them they've been 'Laws of Physics' and they're still referred to  as Laws.  Their current equivalents are in terms of GR's curved space-time as Violdamore indicated, and are often referred to as generalizations of Newton's Laws.  Go figure.  Then there's CPT invariance and things like that - 'Laws' that are no longer referred to as Laws because of stark raging fear of being publicly mistaken if a violation is found.

I tend to look at Physics as observations united by book-keeping, and theory as a hypothetical expansion or generalization or what-have-you, of current book-keeping methods.  Something about what Physicists are doing is profound but it's all in code.  Anyway, not to be dull, that's probably more than enough pontificating...:)

5 hours ago, Don Noon said:

To me, a "theory" is more about making a logical guess from known/measured information and physics.

I think I agree close enough.  Hopefully testable but that kind of goes in and out - rem String theory and the like.

 

 

 

 

[Violadamore]

59 minutes ago, Dr. Mark said:

It depends............They are, however, fundamentally incorrect in any system (in contradiction to a statement above) in particular because they inherently assume action at at distance.   ...:)

Neither a matter nor a field I'd perturb anybody with in a soundpost-tuning thread.    

[Don Noon]

7 hours ago, Don Noon said:

To me, a "theory" is more about making a logical guess from known/measured information and physics. 

1 hour ago, Dr. Mark said:

I think I agree close enough.  Hopefully testable but that kind of goes in and out - rem String theory and the like.

There's also "conspiracy theories", a firmly established term that mostly refers to either ravings of a lunatic or lies generated for a specific effect.  Oh, well.

 

[David Burgess]

11 hours ago, James M. Jones said:

Almost as good as my dog, is good enough for me! Lol

I wish I could stop barking frenetically at the mail-man.

[Bill Yacey]

So, what frequency should a sound post be tuned to? Why?

[JacksonMaberry]

42069 Hz

[Stephan Osthorst]

I see what you did tharrr...