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ID ideas invited before I look inside


matesic
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Moved by request from the Auction Scroll

Thanks to Shelbow's industry there's no chance of finding an overlooked bargain at any of the specialist auction sites, is there? Then again, this one seemed like a bit of a steal for 150 quid at Amati's last sale. I'm looking forward to trying to ID it when it arrives but in the mean time any thoughts?

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Something about the scroll graft, the pegholes repairs, the chattering in the scroll and the slightly stubby corners give me the impression that maybe it came out of the factory that way. Maybe 1920's better quality markie? But I am not an expert and it will be interesting to see what they say. Nice buy !

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Plenty of opportunities around still.

I saw some violins go for crazy high money at Adam partridge yesterday, but amongst them there were a couple of violins that sold for sub 500 that I thought were very interesting.

I looked at your violin in person, it was a bit too narrow an outline for my liking but can't argue much for 150. I had assumed it was probably German but not much logic to my thoughts. :lol:

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If those are lifted Amati pictures, are you able to post the one that spins around 360°?

The back view, with a slightly peculiar outlie, leaves one thinking of one of the Thumhard family, if that were so, then it’s probably re varnished. Looked at from the front, the fholes don’t look remotely Bavarian, more like a C & S Thompson equivalent. Should the postman find his way to your doorstep, the usual questions (rib corners, blocks, linings, if it shows remains of a through neck, etc.) will be on the agenda

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

If those are lifted Amati pictures, are you able to post the one that spins around 360°?

The back view, with a slightly peculiar outlie, leaves one thinking of one of the Thumhard family, if that were so, then it’s probably re varnished. Looked at from the front, the fholes don’t look remotely Bavarian, more like a C & S Thompson equivalent. Should the postman find his way to your doorstep, the usual questions (rib corners, blocks, linings, if it shows remains of a through neck, etc.) will be on the agenda

Can't give you the Amati twirl I'm afraid. I can at least say the arching is very flat.

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28 minutes ago, Delabo said:

As the violin has now been identified as being old,(Thumhardt or Duke school)what causes the chattering that we see in the scroll?

Blunt chisel? Old man? Child? Speed of execution? Just came back from the pub? Incompetence? By design?

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All of your suggestions seem rather harsh for a competent, interesting scroll with some character appeal. How are your scrolls looking these days?

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39 minutes ago, Delabo said:

As the violin has now been identified as being old,(Thumhardt or Duke school)what causes the chattering that we see in the scroll?

Blunt chisel? Old man? Child? Speed of execution? Just came back from the pub? Incompetence? By design?

scroll chatter.jpg

scroll chatter.v2.jpg

The alternative theory would be that the violin originally had a through neck, which some primate objected too, and rather than grafting a new neck, the lazy bastard just made a new scroll

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36 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

All of your suggestions seem rather harsh for a competent, interesting scroll with some character appeal. How are your scrolls looking these days?

I have never carved a scroll. Did you miss my last suggestion "by design"? When I first saw the scroll this morning, my first reaction was that the scroll was intentioanally carved that way "by design". Look back in the thread and you will see that I wrongly attributed the violin as Markneukirchen circa 1920 because I thought it was copying an old Italian scroll by some one like Del Gesu, as @violinsRus has just pointed out. So, nope, I like it.It has character.

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28 minutes ago, Delabo said:

I have never carved a scroll. Did you miss my last suggestion "by design"? When I first saw the scroll this morning, my first reaction was that the scroll was intentioanally carved that way "by design". Look back in the thread and you will see that I wrongly attributed the violin as Markneukirchen circa 1920 because I thought it was copying an old Italian scroll by some one like Del Gesu, as @violinsRus has just pointed out. So, nope, I like it.It has character.

Ah good, sorry for the misunderstanding 

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At first sight I'm in the Buchstetter/Thumhard circle camp, revarnished ((see the "reverse" colored grain in the upper bouts) with a possible later scroll by a copyist. The corners look a bit too blunt and short for a built on the back from England. But I could be wrong, we will have to wait till we know about the internal construction.

The narrow appearance could be an effect of an oversize (365 mm LOB or similar), what would be typical for this South German school.

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16 hours ago, matesic said:

Moved by request from the Auction Scroll

Thanks to Shelbow's industry there's no chance of finding an overlooked bargain at any of the specialist auction sites, is there? Then again, this one seemed like a bit of a steal for 150 quid at Amati's last sale. I'm looking forward to trying to ID it when it arrives but in the mean time any thoughts?

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This violin reminds me of the horror-inducing fraction “frankentiddle” that is the unfortunate subject of this very long thread (apologies in advance): 

 

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9 hours ago, Delabo said:

As the violin has now been identified as being old,(Thumhardt or Duke school)what causes the chattering that we see in the scroll?

Blunt chisel? Old man? Child? Speed of execution? Just came back from the pub? Incompetence? By design?

scroll chatter.jpg

scroll chatter.v2.jpg

Buckle up, my friend: 

 

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Pictures taken today

I gather a John Boyd was active in Dundee in the 1840's. Maybe "Repaired by" refers to the neck graft; he doesn't claim to be the maker but I guess Scottish is starting to look probable. A new set of strings and it's already up and running nicely.

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Surprisingly the varnish looks now much nicer than at the obviously over-processed first photos.

I'm a bit confused now by the one piece lower rib with the notch. The inside work is confusing, too, it looks as if either the corner blocks or the linings are overworked, resulting in these wide and unusual gaps. Considering this and the probably mitred rib joints (?), I would still assume a South-German origin, though I'm not informed about all possible Scottish working methods.

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15 hours ago, mathieu valde said:

looks like Charles Harris c1835

The wide F-holes are slightly similar to those of my Harris violin dated 1809 (pic below).

John Boyd doesn't get a mention in Honeyman's Scottish Violin Makers Past and Present, in spite of the fact that they were both based in Dundee!  The only reference I can find to him is from Ben Hebbert blog, as the maker of two cellos.

Do the stubby corners look a bit like John Blair's illustrated in The British Violin?

I love these odd maybe-British instruments with a bit of a story attached. And as a player it's better than I was expecting

 

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