Can anyone help identify this violin?

[martin swan]

19 hours ago, Spelman said:

It's always cool when the "closet fiddle" turns out to be the real deal.

Congratulations on winning the violin lottery!

I for one am not saying this is the "real deal".

Jacob and I think it looks quite like Gagliano family, but it does have anomalies, so the OP is wise not to open the bubbly quite yet ....

Sending photos to Dmitry is a good idea, but I would probably start with a dendro.

[Spelman]

5 hours ago, martin swan said:

I for one am not saying this is the "real deal".

Jacob and I think it looks quite like Gagliano family, but it does have anomalies, so the OP is wise not to open the bubbly quite yet ....

Sending photos to Dmitry is a good idea, but I would probably start with a dendro.

True, true, chickens can't be counted quite yet. Still very intriguing that it appears like it has a good chance of being the fiddle-unicorn.

@Arthur Post, please keep us abreast of any new developments with your violin!

 

[uguntde]

To me the purfling of the front looks different to that of the back - no bea stings, different woods.

[Delabo]

17 hours ago, uguntde said:

To me the purfling of the front looks different to that of the back - no bea stings, different woods.

You need to zoom in further. Also, the front wood is much softer and has broken or worn away on the corners which takes the bee stings with it. But if you zoom in on those worn corners you can still see the remnants of the bee stings. Front and back pictures for comparison.

[Arthur Post]

UPDATE - Thank you all for your valuable input.

The quick "preliminary impression" from photos that Dmitry Gindin offers yielded the opinion that it isn't Italian.

I also sent the photos posted here, plus photos of as much of the linings and blocks as could be captured on a cell phone camera through the F-holes to Geigenbau Benedek. They said they could rule out Hungarian origin. I think that means Austro-Hungarian. (Please let me know if anyone thinks that posting those photos here would help.) 

Next stop, probably dendro.

 

[Blank face]

Yes, photos of blocks and linings would be helpful, especially if they can tell what sort of wood was used. How deep goes the scroll front fluting, to the very end or does it stop before?

[Arthur Post]

3 hours ago, Blank face said:

How deep goes the scroll front fluting, to the very end or does it stop before?

I hope I've understood what the fluting is. Do these photos suffice?

[Blank face]

22 hours ago, Arthur Post said:

I hope I've understood what the fluting is. Do these photos suffice?

Yes, thanks. Obviously the fluting stops before the “bitter end”, what excludes at least the most South German, Austrian or Prague makers (or Budapest 19th century,of course).

[Arthur Post]

1 hour ago, Blank face said:

Yes, thanks. Obviously the fluting stops before the “bitter end”, what excludes at least the most South German, Austrian or Prague makers (or Budapest 19th century,of course).

Many thanks for that observation! Here are the photos of the linings and the lower blocks, as best as I could get them through the F-holes.  

[Michael Darnton]

paging @Ben Hebbert . . . .

[Delabo]

21 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:

paging @Ben Hebbert . . . .

Are you seeing British features in the OP violin?

[Shelbow]

Is this a Voller suggestion?

[Michael Darnton]

Yes.

[Spongebob]

49 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:

paging @Ben Hebbert . . . .

Michael, I don't know that term, can you explain to me?

[Michael Darnton]

Pagers? Remember them? PA announcements in airports: "Paging Mr Smith; please answer on a white phone."

Or is it Ben Hebbert? He's a person.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Michael Darnton

[Spongebob]

7 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:

Pagers? Remember them? PA announcements in airports: "Paging Mr Smith; please answer on a white phone."

Or is it Ben Hebbertt? He's a person.

 the clown squared (I am indeed talking about myself)

[martin swan]

1 hour ago, Shelbow said:

Is this a Voller suggestion?

Voller's an interesting idea but it seems to lack some of the classic Voller tells ...

[Michael Darnton]

And yet it also does have some of them, too.

[jacobsaunders]

My early experience as a teenager, when I first moved to Germany was that English vm’s, when they are not sure what something is, say that it’s German, and German vm’s, when they are not sure what it is, say that it’s English. Best not to listen

[martin swan]

Just now, Michael Darnton said:

And yet it also does have some of them, too.

yes - there are a few other possible suspects, TJ Holder for example. I've only ever seen one of the really good copies by Wilkinson but it was better than this, and a Wulme Hudson "proper copy" would surely look fresher.

Interesting that Benedek dismissed it ... 

[Blank face]

Obviously the belly has lost the bigger part of it’s varnish, and from the photos I’m not sure if the corner blocks were present from the start. So I’m starting to wonder what else might be altered.

[Hetland]

Interesting that Benedek dismissed it ...

Well, I was going to comment... ;but I think I will wait to see where you end up?

[Arthur Post]

The plot thickens -

Does anyone know anything about a violin maker named Hidalgo Moya, who died in 1927? 

This violin belonged to my grandmother, who was born in the USA in 1896. Her grandfather was Juan Jose Hidalgo Moya, born in Mexico in 1930. It looks like he lived in the state of Missouri, USA at least until 1880, and it appears he was a violinist. Any relation between these two "Hidalgo Moyas" is just conjecture at this point. 

Hidalgo Moya co-authored "Violin Tone and Violin Makers" (with Towry Piper, who edited writings for Hart) published in London by Chatto & Windus in 1916.

Available for download here:  https://www.ebooksread.com/dl2.shtml?id=167581&ext=pdf_external&f=violintoneviolin00moyaiala&a_id=68861

Tarisio and Bromptons list some Hidalgo Moya fiddles sold at auction:

https://tarisio.com/cozio-archive/browse-the-archive/makers/maker/?Maker_ID=1248

https://tarisio.com/cozio-archive/price-history/?search_city=&search_last_name=&Maker_ID=1248&order=auction_month%3ADESC&unsold=1

https://www.bromptons.co/reference/makers/details/moya-hidalgo.html

 

[Arthur Post]

44 minutes ago, Arthur Post said:

Any relation between these two "Hidalgo Moyas" is just conjecture at this point.

A little more research reveals that the luthier Hidalgo Moya worked in Leicester and was born in Missouri in 1867. (It appears he had a previous career inventing and developing typewriters!) I'd say it's probable that he was related to my grandmother's grandfather, but the fiddle in question is much too old to have been made by him. He was busy with typewriters and aviation experiments until around 1910. 

Has anyone heard of first-half of 19th century Mexican luthiers?

[Blank face]

Your fiddle could have been well made in the late 19th century. The Tarisio example you linked is more refined (and has possibly a bought in commercial scroll), but the general style, the model and small details like purfling joints and bottom pins are very close. Maybe you have solved the mystery.