Arthur Post Posted September 15, 2022 Report Share Posted September 15, 2022 I'm new to this forum - hope I'm following the protocols correctly. This violin was purchased in New York around 1910 by my grandmother, who probably played it for only 10-15 years before stowing it away. The 'Ferdinandus Gagliano . . . 1760' label looks very old but fake. I've gotten an opinion that it may very well be late 18th - early 19th century Italian, but no clues as to its specific origin. Any information or ideas from people with trained eyes would be welcome. Thanks in advance for your attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted September 15, 2022 Report Share Posted September 15, 2022 I wonder why you’re grandma gave up? I’m surprised that nobody has said anything yet. I agree with you that the Label is one of these https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/330195-johann-adam-sch%C3%B6nfelder/&do=findComment&comment=621046 but the fiddle looks like one of the Gaglianos, or someone close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tetler Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 Jacob, could you explain why this is not the usual? Can you tell the construction method? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 51 minutes ago, tetler said: Jacob, could you explain why this is not the usual? Can you tell the construction method? Thanks That wouldn’t be a viable approach, since the Gagliani used the BOB construction method Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tetler Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 So what is your opinion based on if I may ask? Is the violin just a model that they did not use in Vogtland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delabo Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 11 hours ago, jacobsaunders said: I’m surprised that nobody has said anything yet. Maybe because its a Its a puzzler? Gagliano with pins under the purfling? later pins and purfling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 I agree with Jacob It would be nice to see more of the original pegholes but my immediate response was Gagliano. btw it’s very common for Gagliano family violins to have wrong labels, not entirely sure why … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 26 minutes ago, tetler said: So what is your opinion based on if I may ask? Is the violin just a model that they did not use in Vogtland? A good question. The pictures just said Gagliano or close to me straight away. I will have to think hard why myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tetler Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 I'll say Vogtland until Jacob is done thinking hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tetler Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 26 minutes ago, martin swan said: I agree with Jacob It would be nice to see more of the original pegholes but my immediate response was Gagliano. btw it’s very common for Gagliano family violins to have wrong labels, not entirely sure why … I'd be interested to hear if you too are able to pinpoint some features that makes it a Gagliano. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 Factually there are certain similarities between (very good) Vogtlands of the 19th century and Gagliano resp. other Neapolitan makers. The last I saw, an extremely well preserved but also well documented example, looked for me like a straight forward Markneukirchen at first sight. I would describe it this way that one can confuse a Gagliano sometimes with a Markneukirchen, but a Markneukirchen rather not with a Gagliano. I would guess that the pins are either a later addition or an original attempt to make it look Cremona-alike, otherwise pins aren't part of the construction method. What confuses me a bit are the bee-strings of the purfling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 56 minutes ago, martin swan said: btw it’s very common for Gagliano family violins to have wrong labels, not entirely sure why … Maybe because they are often Ventapanes or similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeH Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 @Arthur Post Welcome to MN, and thanks for posting pictures of your violin. In my opinion, this violin should be personally examined by experts, including a dendro analysis by somebody like Peter Ratcliff @Ratcliffiddles to help date it. If you want to reveal your general geographic location, people here can suggest nearby experts who might be qualified to offer an informed opinion or write a certificate of authenticity for it. (Some people here are very informed experts, but a violin like this needs to be examined in person.) You should do this sooner rather than later as it could potentially be worth getting an insurance appraisal done and getting it insured by a musical instrument insurance company like Clarion or Heritage, who specialize in musical instrument insurance. In the meantime, take good care of it, and make sure you know what it is worth before you sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, GeorgeH said: make sure you know what it is worth before you sell it. you’re not in the market for it then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeH Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 Just now, jacobsaunders said: you’re not in the market for it then? It wouldn't fit in my collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delabo Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Blank face said: I would guess that the pins are either a later addition I can see how someone could have inserted the top pin because the purfling is cut close by, but how did they get the bottom one in? There does not appear to be a visible cut there. Melt the purfling glue and lift it enough to drill a hole and put a pin in the hole? Or maybe the purfling is cut under the chin rest which is not visible in the picture. On closer examination maybe the pin is not actually under the bottom purfling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 47 minutes ago, Delabo said: I can see how someone could have inserted the top pin because the purfling is cut close by It's not necessary to lift the purfling to add such pins. With a bit of skill (and sharp tools) one can carve halfcircular pins and widen a small drill hole into a halfcircle, too, at least at the visible surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delabo Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, Blank face said: It's not necessary to lift the purfling to add such pins. With a bit of skill (and sharp tools) one can carve halfcircular pins and widen a small drill hole into a halfcircle, too, at least at the visible surface. Oh dear, of course, I never could have even thought of such an idea. The violin biz gets more and more complicated the more you look into it. You need to be a great detective like Sherlock Holmes. Thank you for sharing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Post Posted September 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 10 hours ago, GeorgeH said: If you want to reveal your general geographic location, Thank you all for your comments! I'm in Girona, outside of Barcelona. I would greatly appreciate any advice about where to have it looked at. I lived previously in Colorado and brought the fiddle to Robertson in Albuquerque. 4 or 5 years ago they said they sent photos to someone in London for dendro (I forgot the name but will try to get it.), but it didn't turn up any matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Post Posted September 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 13 hours ago, martin swan said: It would be nice to see more of the original pegholes Would any additional photos help? Or are you saying that the pegholes are no longer original, so nothing more can be gleaned from them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted September 17, 2022 Report Share Posted September 17, 2022 10 hours ago, Arthur Post said: Thank you all for your comments! I'm in Girona, outside of Barcelona. I would greatly appreciate any advice about where to have it looked at. I lived previously in Colorado and brought the fiddle to Robertson in Albuquerque. 4 or 5 years ago they said they sent photos to someone in London for dendro (I forgot the name but will try to get it.), but it didn't turn up any matches. The nearest top expert to Barcelona would be Eric Blot in Cremona Contact | Eric Blot | violinmaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germain Posted September 17, 2022 Report Share Posted September 17, 2022 Wow that looks like a nice fiddle. You may want to send some pix to Gindin via his website. Online identification - $60 would be well spent on this instrument... https://dmitrygindin.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spelman Posted September 17, 2022 Report Share Posted September 17, 2022 It's always cool when the "closet fiddle" turns out to be the real deal. Congratulations on winning the violin lottery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Post Posted September 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 19 hours ago, germain said: Online identification - $60 would be well spent on this instrument.. Thanks for the good idea @germain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Post Posted September 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 15 hours ago, Spelman said: Congratulations on winning the violin lottery! I'm not counting my chickens yet, but thanks for the encouragement @Spelman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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