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German violin to ID


Goffriller

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8 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Exactly.

 

That's a misconception. Nothing at the "Copie de.." label is claiming that the instrument which is bearing it was made in France. This would need a note like "Fabrique in France", which isn't there. 

Thank you very much for your answer.

Even you are looking for nuances to determine the origin (on a more professional level, of course). A novice, he won't say anything more, but the language used will direct him towards France :) as you can see, completely wrong.

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In both this post and the one highlighted by Michael Richwine, there were many professional opinions, analyzes, suggestions... So, is it possible to ask a respectable group to put it all together and help determine who produced this violin (what indicates this) and in what time frame?
One of colleagues wrote that this violin is 'more interesting' than the usual from that period (better selection for sale?) ...can it be confirmed?

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To make a wild guess, it could be from the Migma or a similar postwar Markneukirchen firm made for the export and sold afterwards by one of the surviving Mirecourt wholesalers. But that's to a big part speculation.

What's more interesting with it remains the secret of the person who told it.

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On 8/13/2022 at 4:56 PM, martin swan said:

Renegade you have hijacked someone else's thread ... which is not really the done thing.

But many Berman (sic) German violins were made with "copie de" labels. The violin in your photos is one of these and not Mirecourt.

I agree with Blank Face that most likely post WWII, but I haven't personally seen Migma violins with that very white varnish wipe.

I see no reason to think the violin was sold through a French firm or that it was ever anywhere near France. The label is just a label ...

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1 hour ago, Blank face said:

To make a wild guess, it could be from the Migma or a similar postwar Markneukirchen firm made for the export and sold afterwards by one of the surviving Mirecourt wholesalers. But that's to a big part speculation.

What's more interesting with it remains the secret of the person who told it.

Wow ...
They did them in Migma or not, but interesting history of the region :)

https://migma-eg.de/content/21-geschichte

PS: I understand that you think the violin is from the period not earlier than the 1940s., maybe a little later?

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11 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I agree with Blank Face that most likely post WWII, but I haven't personally seen Migma violins with that very white varnish wipe.

I see no reason to think the violin was sold through a French firm or that it was ever anywhere near France. The label is just a label ...

Martin, you're right, kidnapped, but no one has written anything for two days, and mine apparently come from a similar period...
They could be discussed at the same time, especially since the Goffriller violin has' Copy... Made in Germany', and on mine 'Copie ...without Made in... '

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17 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I agree with Blank Face that most likely post WWII, but I haven't personally seen Migma violins with that very white varnish wipe.

Martin, see the photo on this page, you can assume that this is their photo, company photo, old one.
There are a 'bright' violin on it (is that what you mean?)

https://migma-eg.de/content/12-atelier-fuer-streichinstrumente

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25 minutes ago, Renegade said:

Martin, see the photo on this page, you can assume that this is their photo, company photo, old one.
There are a 'bright' violin on it (is that what you mean?)

https://migma-eg.de/content/12-atelier-fuer-streichinstrumente

The actual Migma has nothing more to do with the GDR organisation than the name. During the 1950s/60s the few leftover free working Markneukirchen makers were forced to join this "comradeship" which had the monopol to sell or distribute all instruments being produced. 

Therefore these products can look very different; they often had a name of an alleged master who was accused to have made them, but were just massproduced stuff and could look very different, especially through different periods. Therefore the whitish edges won't exclude for me anything, but as I wrote it's just a speculative idea. Similar instruments were sold by Gewa or Framus, too.

Agree that the spurious label could be inserted elsewhere at any time.

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8 hours ago, Renegade said:

In both this post and the one highlighted by Michael Richwine, there were many professional opinions, analyzes, suggestions... So, is it possible to ask a respectable group to put it all together and help determine who produced this violin (what indicates this) and in what time frame?
One of colleagues wrote that this violin is 'more interesting' than the usual from that period (better selection for sale?) ...can it be confirmed?

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Does yours say Made in Germany, or Made in France? If it says made in Germany, there is no reason to think that it was made in France. Yes, it's a workshop fiddle.

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1 minute ago, GeorgeH said:

Personally, I have never seen an authentic French violin with the "Stradiuarius" spelling on the label. That seems to be a German thing.

As Martin and me mentioned before, this was a very common label and spelling for low grade Mirecourts.

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11 minutes ago, Blank face said:

As Martin and me mentioned before, this was a very common label and spelling for low grade Mirecourts.

I appreciate that, yet to me, it still begs the question, as discussed above, whether or not violins with this spelling of "Stradiuarius" and the "Copy de" were actually made in Mirecourt, even if they were ultimately exported from France. 

Why would a French firm use "Stradiuarius" on their label instead of "Stradivarius?"

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36 minutes ago, FiddleDoug said:

Does yours say Made in Germany, or Made in France? If it says made in Germany, there is no reason to think that it was made in France. Yes, it's a workshop fiddle.

The first ones (OP) are 'made in Germany' ... and everything is OK.
Mine have 'Copie de ...'.
Colleagues said it was a German violin with one of the stories described earlier.

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7 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

Why would a French firm use "Stradiuarius" on their label instead of "Stradivarius?"

They're probably remembering their Latin class, where they learned that the Romans used 'V' (whether vowel or consonant) when writing in capital letters, and 'u' for the same two sounds when using the (newer) lower case letters.

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8 hours ago, Blank face said:

As Martin and me mentioned before, this was a very common label and spelling for low grade Mirecourts.

Did I? I don't recall having seen a French violin with this "Stradiuarius" spelling but I could be wrong ... 

If someone has an example please do post it - Renegade's violin is decidedly not Mirecourt and I believe its label to be original ie. a German label which is giving itself French airs and graces.

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5 hours ago, Goffriller said:

Would anyone have more information on the violin that I posted at the beginning of this thread? I appreciate you mentioning if was from Markneukirchen, but how old is it approximately? More like 1880s, or 1920s?

Thanks! 

Gofriller, I think you've been disappeared!

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8 hours ago, martin swan said:

Did I? I don't recall having seen a French violin with this "Stradiuarius" spelling but I could be wrong ... 

If someone has an example please do post it - Renegade's violin is decidedly not Mirecourt and I believe its label to be original ie. a German label which is giving itself French airs and graces.

I stand corrected. In this thread you didn't, maybe it was at another occasion?

Here's the first example of a "Straduarius" I found in my photos, undoubtly Mirecourt IMO with an outside mould construction as I think to recall. There must be others I can produce if it's necessary.

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