Violin bow trial

[kds47]

Hello everyone. I'm currently doing a violin bow trial through Shar Music and have a question: does the strength of vibration running through the stick have anything to do with the quality? I am testing a few Guy Laurent bows and the one that feels and plays best has a warmer mellow tone and fast response but not as strong of a vibration running through it as the others. Does that mean anything in terms of quality? 

[Michael Darnton]

Not clear on what you mean by "strong of a vibration running through it."  If you mean it shakes while you play, this is a distinctly bad thing, not good. You want a bow that's rock solid steady from one end to the other. If that is what you mean, it sounds like you already know which one is the good one--the one that plays, sounds, and feels best. There's not much more than that.

[kds47]

I can tap it on my hand a feel the vibrations in all of them except one which barely has any and the hair loose compared to the others but it feels ok on the string. They are all okay. Some more lively and loud than the others. They are in a cheapish price range. I'm having a hard time finding a good wood bow in the 3-$400 price  range. 

[GoPractice]

If a bow feels "lively" in your hands, smaller vibrations, that is one quality. If the bow appears to "chatter" when the amplitude of the strings is great, then that is far more problematic.

18 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:

Not clear on what you mean by "strong of a vibration running through it."  If you mean it shakes while you play, this is a distinctly bad thing, not good. You want a bow that's rock solid steady from one end to the other. If that is what you mean, it sounds like you already know which one is the good one--the one that plays, sounds, and feels best. There's not much more than that.

There are plenty of strange phenomena and ephemera ( what amounts to words and experiences ) when playing a variety of bows. It is wonderful that you notice how one might feel or sound different. That will always be of value in the future.

Hope you find something great.

[kds47]

29 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:

Not clear on what you mean by "strong of a vibration running through it."  If you mean it shakes while you play, this is a distinctly bad thing, not good. You want a bow that's rock solid steady from one end to the other. If that is what you mean, it sounds like you already know which one is the good one--the one that plays, sounds, and feels best. There's not much more than that.

Thanks. I meant to respond to you directly but I can tap it on my hand and feel the vibrations in all but one but it handles better than the others. It sounds okay. Thanks.

[kds47]

1 minute ago, GoPractice said:

If a bow feels "lively" in your hands, smaller vibrations, that is one quality. If the bow appears to "chatter" when the amplitude of the strings is great, then that is far more problematic.

There are plenty of strange phenomena and ephemera ( what amounts to words and experiences ) when playing a variety of bows. It is wonderful that you notice how one might feel or sound different. That will always be of value in the future.

Hope you find something great.

Thanks. I've been doing a lot of trials. I'm sure I'll come across something that works.

[kds47]

10 minutes ago, GoPractice said:

If a bow feels "lively" in your hands, smaller vibrations, that is one quality. If the bow appears to "chatter" when the amplitude of the strings is great, then that is far more problematic.

There are plenty of strange phenomena and ephemera ( what amounts to words and experiences ) when playing a variety of bows. It is wonderful that you notice how one might feel or sound different. That will always be of value in the future.

Hope you find something great.

'If a bow feels "lively" in your hands, smaller vibrations, that is one quality. If the bow appears to "chatter" when the amplitude of the strings is great, then that is far more problematic.' This statement helped me so much. Thanks!

 

[uguntde]

On 8/6/2022 at 8:06 PM, kds47 said:

I can tap it on my hand a feel the vibrations in all of them except one which barely has any and the hair loose compared to the others but it feels ok on the string. They are all okay. Some more lively and loud than the others. They are in a cheapish price range. I'm having a hard time finding a good wood bow in the 3-$400 price  range. 

In this budget range I would buy a carbon bow. You won't find a decent wooden bow for below $1000.

[kds47]

46 minutes ago, uguntde said:

In this budget range I would buy a carbon bow. You won't find a decent wooden bow for below $1000.

I'm beginning to find this out. I am trying out some codabows this week. I will compare with other wood bows but so far the wood ones haven't lived up to much..

[Andrew Victor]

kds47, I tried a number of different carbon fiiber (CF) bows early in their evolution and still have Coda classic, Arcus, and CF Durro bows (of violin, viola and cello denominations) as well as Berg Deluxe and Rolland Spiccato violin bows. I quit dabbling in that sort of search (probably) 20 years ago - so I don't have hands on experience with newer excamples, but I hear some are pretty good - and in your price range.

My own experience of the CF Durro bows was quite a surprise. I think I paid $900 for by collection of 3 of these bows (violin, viola and cello). The violin and cello CF Durro bows are quite exceptional on the right instruments (which I happened to own). The cello bow was the best of my cello bows for an 1877 cello that I recently gifted to a family member. The violin bow is the equal of my classic bows for at least one of my violins. The viola bow is less remarkable but it is the equal of a $600 German pernambuco viola bow that I still own. Unfortunately CF Durro these bows never seem to appear for sale any more.

Regarding bow vibrations "the" expert on that is Colin E. Gough, a British scientist with numerous publications in this area. Bows do vibrate, as you would expect with any cantilevered beam. The problem of string  (or any other) vibrations getting into the stick and then back into the strings might cause interference with production of controlled tone (to put it as simply as possible). If you can feel vibrations in the stick while playing, you have a pretty good idea that the string vibrations are not adequately damped in the bow.

[Shunyata]

The Coda Marquise is an exceptional bow in my opinion.  You will pay A LOT more for a wood bow that plays as well.

[kds47]

15 hours ago, Andrew Victor said:

kds47, I tried a number of different carbon fiiber (CF) bows early in their evolution and still have Coda classic, Arcus, and CF Durro bows (of violin, viola and cello denominations) as well as Berg Deluxe and Rolland Spiccato violin bows. I quit dabbling in that sort of search (probably) 20 years ago - so I don't have hands on experience with newer excamples, but I hear some are pretty good - and in your price range.

My own experience of the CF Durro bows was quite a surprise. I think I paid $900 for by collection of 3 of these bows (violin, viola and cello). The violin and cello CF Durro bows are quite exceptional on the right instruments (which I happened to own). The cello bow was the best of my cello bows for an 1877 cello that I recently gifted to a family member. The violin bow is the equal of my classic bows for at least one of my violins. The viola bow is less remarkable but it is the equal of a $600 German pernambuco viola bow that I still own. Unfortunately CF Durro these bows never seem to appear for sale any more.

Regarding bow vibrations "the" expert on that is Colin E. Gough, a British scientist with numerous publications in this area. Bows do vibrate, as you would expect with any cantilevered beam. The problem of string  (or any other) vibrations getting into the stick and then back into the strings might cause interference with production of controlled tone (to put it as simply as possible). If you can feel vibrations in the stick while playing, you have a pretty good idea that the string vibrations are not adequately damped in the bow.

Thanks! I'm finding the search for a new bow to be daunting but fascinating. I'm taking my time. I've been to local shops and done some in home trials. I am doing one more to compare with the carbon fiber. I did run across a couple of wood bows that were honestly not that bad, but after visiting my local shop (they didn't have a large selection but are awaiting a shipment of bows) they said sometimes a rehair could make a difference. I think one bow that I thought was "weak" was better after tightening the hair more, then I could feel the stick vibrations better but I still decided against it. I really don't want to have to rehair a new bow. I tried the Codabow NX in a electric violin shop and liked the feel of the balance better than the Luma and GX. The shop owner was surprised but said they do sell a lot more of the NX bows. I don't like bows that are weighted heavily at the frog. I would save up and wait but I REALLY need a new bow. It's hampering my practice. I think I really want a wood bow but have been impressed with the Codabows. I tried the SX in a shop and took it home for a few days. It's a middle of the road bow. Nothing special but it handles well.

[kds47]

15 hours ago, Shunyata said:

The Coda Marquise is an exceptional bow in my opinion.  You will pay A LOT more for a wood bow that plays as well.

Haven't tried that one yet...

[kds47]

This is proving to be more difficult to decide on than I thought...