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Is this a Quinton?


jandepora
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Hello,

This time I have this specimen. For me it looks like a Quinton but the width of the neck in the nut is around 25cm, a bit shorter for a 5 string viol.

The tailpiece is attached like a viol, without hole in the ribs.

The lenght of the back without the button is around 36 cm. The string vibrating length around 35cm.

What is your opinion? Any idea about age or origin?

IMG_20220601_225018.thumb.jpg.0fca657c4de49af1f16f92a7269445e5.jpgIMG_20220729_233704.thumb.jpg.966caed0838fb0c0640d20d42913fbba.jpgIMG_20220729_234013.thumb.jpg.df08be942038f835ae0a464bb81241fa.jpgIMG_20220729_233837.thumb.jpg.0803f2c1f626d65e72452ef1d6e6835d.jpgIMG_20220729_234355.thumb.jpg.e047b915ade22f638ec69078f506f9dc.jpgIMG_20220729_234434.thumb.jpg.1446c9848219e1ab679aaf216977019e.jpgIMG_20220729_234509.thumb.jpg.2d43879b3afb36013444a82f12f77398.jpgIMG_20220729_234112.jpg.eb8d6390f4033c7d43827d111b9c08bd.jpgIMG_20220729_234255.thumb.jpg.3bc0d835dce59db3e3f105e46d21c451.jpgIMG_20220729_234140.thumb.jpg.676c03e76333e5c1c98a632d05b807b7.jpgIMG_20220729_234545.thumb.jpg.e63ee105e9ac47b4127bb959c3d7c9e8.jpgIMG_20220729_234322.thumb.jpg.295aef476a61f94f53f20fda1d6742c9.jpgIMG_20220729_234738.thumb.jpg.f60f92d7dcd9f78b71733398319ad3b9.jpgIMG_20220729_234655.thumb.jpg.13ff95eb9090a2a5d97e46a27d91bf3d.jpgIMG_20220729_234914.thumb.jpg.c16fff170d978c28b254c95b98aacc7d.jpgIMG_20220729_235058.thumb.jpg.fd6914d996a81f3423cea1ead79bbfe6.jpgIMG_20220729_234842.thumb.jpg.3522ec3843e5842b1b28354bad378c9b.jpgIMG_20220729_234946.thumb.jpg.836c0f12d7f178fe89f821285530a68e.jpgIMG_20220731_003235.thumb.jpg.621553f1046a0f2f96fd366a0a70dcd2.jpgIMG_20220731_003131.thumb.jpg.99dba467ad5e9b8a58802fe016776ed9.jpgIMG_20220731_003346.thumb.jpg.8c0ead972a24db451391f7b3b0e50b4a.jpg

 

IMG_20220729_153114.jpg

IMG_20220729_234630.jpg

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24 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

Judging by the internal wood colour, I wouldn't think it's more than 40 or 50 years old.

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23 minutes ago, Bill Yacey said:

Judging by the internal wood colour, I wouldn't think it's more than 40 or 50 years old.

Agreed, I assume that it is something from the 1960/70's historical revival period and probably made by an amateur maker. But I am not an expert so I await comments from people that know more than I.

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I agree that it looks more or less recent work, but it has some use marks. The strings that comes with it looks like a Quinton tuning with the GDaeg' gauges.

The body originally must not be of viola d'amore because in the bottom ribs there is not signal of the nail for the resonant strings.

 

 

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1 hour ago, jandepora said:

How it could be a shoulder instrument with this kind of tailpiece attaching system?

If finally I want it like a 5 string viola/violin, what must I will do with this tailpiece to make it playable over the shoulder?

 

Many violas d'amore are much worse, including mine. You have to adjust This doesnt look so bad.

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1 hour ago, deans said:

Many violas d'amore are much worse, including mine. You have to adjust This doesnt look so bad.

I have 2 viola d'amore and I acquired this one thinking more in a 5 strings viola/violin, even a possible Quinton. But with the width of the neck it has I think the only possibility is a 5 string violin/viola. With only 25mm in the neck near the nut is not possible to play as a Quinton.

 

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11 hours ago, Blank face said:

Typically these were played at the chest or with the chin right from the tailpiece.

But the Quinton is played like a Gamba. An the type of tailpiece in mine is the one you find in a Gamba and not in a braccio/shoulder instrument. Then I don't know if the tailpiece in mine is comfortable to play like a violin.

IMG_20220801_085238.thumb.jpg.e2186bb262dec7aa67fb8ccad3797ef1.jpg

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11 hours ago, Blank face said:

Because your's isn't a historically correct "period" instruments but more likely a free adaption from something without exact original example you can choose also freely how to hold it the best way. Some possibilities how to hold lyres and viols:

It seems that originally in the past there were examples that could match with mine... I assume, of course, mine being not as old.

In Myrna Herzog article about Quinton:

"We find  instruments by Gilbert and Salomon, made in the 1750s, viol-shaped with an arched back and modified f-holes, with ribs of intermediate height."

And other characteristic mine has like a Quinton is the longer neck length compare with usual violin necks. Like M. Herzog point the expert restorer Fred Lindeman of Amsterdam told her:

while the bellies had violin-length (sometimes even a bit on the short side), the necks, in relation to them, were slightly on the long side according to today’s standard, but fitting with the French violin-necks of that period.”

 

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Thanks, that's interesting! How long is the neck with the 350 mm string length?

The MIMO gives some Quintons, the measure of the bodies quite small (316 and 326 mm). The neck lenghts are unfortunately not listed, while the total lengths of ca 60 cm indicate a long neck.

https://mimo-international.com/MIMO/detailstatic.aspx?RSC_BASE=IFD&RSC_DOCID=OAI_CIMU_ALOES_0158538&TITLE=%2F&_lg=de-DE

https://mimo-international.com/MIMO/detailstatic.aspx?RSC_BASE=IFD&RSC_DOCID=OAI_CIMU_ALOES_0158538&TITLE=%2F&_lg=de-DE

https://mimo-international.com/MIMO/doc/IFD/OAI_CIMU_ALOES_0160689

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On 8/1/2022 at 11:16 PM, Blank face said:

Thanks, that's interesting! How long is the neck with the 350 mm string length?

The MIMO gives some Quintons, the measure of the bodies quite small (316 and 326 mm). The neck lenghts are unfortunately not listed, while the total lengths of ca 60 cm indicate a long neck.

https://mimo-international.com/MIMO/detailstatic.aspx?RSC_BASE=IFD&RSC_DOCID=OAI_CIMU_ALOES_0158538&TITLE=%2F&_lg=de-DE

https://mimo-international.com/MIMO/detailstatic.aspx?RSC_BASE=IFD&RSC_DOCID=OAI_CIMU_ALOES_0158538&TITLE=%2F&_lg=de-DE

https://mimo-international.com/MIMO/doc/IFD/OAI_CIMU_ALOES_0160689

What I understood of the Myrna article is that if it has the form of viola and the back flat, is a pardessus de viole 5 strings. And if it has the back with arching like violin, even having form and f holes like viola then, is a Quinton. And that the Quinton was play over the leg and not on the shoulder.

Both instruments had the same tuning but it's differences were about its form and it's sound projection; the Quinton was invent to play the violin parts for viol musician and the pardessus a 5 cordes was an adaptation of the pardessus a 6 cordes to play the same but it projection, due the flat back, was inferior than the Quinton.

The examples you have post must be pardessus de viole a cinq cordes.

This is a Quinton in violin form

https://mimo-international.com/MIMO/search.aspx?SC=DEFAULT&QUERY=quinton+#/Detail/(query:(Id:'5_OFFSET_0',Index:6,NBResults:44,PageRange:3,SearchQuery:(ForceSearch:!f,Page:0,PageRange:3,QueryString:quinton,ResultSize:15,ScenarioCode:DEFAULT,ScenarioDisplayMode:display-mosaic,SearchLabel:'',SearchTerms:quinton,SortField:Author_sort,SortOrder:0,TemplateParams:(Scenario:'',Scope:'',Size:!n,Source:'',Support:''))))

This is a Quinton in viol form 

https://mimo-international.com/MIMO/doc/IFD/OAI_CIMU_ALOES_0130560

Both examples are quintons from Chappuy, both with arched back, first in violin form and second with viol form.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

I finally set-up this "Quinton" but I need new strings.

The vibrating string length is 355mm, what Strings could I use with this? I see sets of 5 string for violin, or for viola with 380mm vibrating string lenthg. But none for 355mm vibrating string length

I am going to need a new bridge, but I want to acquire better and newer strings.

Any suggest?

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