Choice of wood for CITES-proof fittings replacement

[Dwight Brown]

Both useful and yummy!

DLB

[Al Cramer]

Was just curious -- have there been any actual cases where people traveling with their instrument were hastled at customs because of CITES? I ask because the issue crops up here periodically, and am wondering if we're worrying about something that never happens (of course, no one wants to the first).

[JacksonMaberry]

21 minutes ago, Al Cramer said:

Was just curious -- have there been any actual cases where people traveling with their instrument were hastled at customs because of CITES? I ask because the issue crops up here periodically, and am wondering if we're worrying about something that never happens (of course, no one wants to the first).

https://www.wqxr.org/story/newark-officials-seize-budapest-orchestras-violin-bows/

One of many results if one googles "violin/bow confiscated by customs"

[Al Cramer]

Wow!  Thanks for posting. I had no idea this was such a problem. Am 100% in support of the elephants, but confiscating old violin bows isn't going to help them much. I hope US customs has got its act together. I guess I have to give them credit for trying.

Would you happen to know what responsible bow-makers are using now for the plate at the top? I studied my one good pernanbucco bow (contemporary, purchased in late 90's) and it looks like ivory. My other bows (ipe wood, carbon fiber) look to be some kind of hi-density delron-ish plastic.

[JacksonMaberry]

6 minutes ago, Al Cramer said:

Wow!  Thanks for posting. I had no idea this was such a problem. Am 100% in support of the elephants, but confiscating old violin bows isn't going to help them much. I hope US customs has got its act together. I guess I have to give them credit for trying.

Would you happen to know what responsible bow-makers are using now for the plate at the top? I studied my one good pernanbucco bow (contemporary, purchased in late 90's) and it looks like ivory. My other bows (ipe wood, carbon fiber) look to be some kind of hi-density delron-ish plastic.

With you on that, for sure. There are a number of things I'm seeing archetiers doing - something called Tip Armor, which I think is a micarta like material? Lots more silver head plates, which I think looks quite nice. I'm sure there's more that I'm not aware of.

[Andrew tkinson]

On 9/27/2022 at 3:08 PM, Dwight Brown said:

My reasoning behind the idea that lignin reactivated is rather an odd source. I have a pellet smoker for making the most holy of Texas BBQ that is the magnificent brisket! The pellets are made from just wood with no added glue by compression. The makers of the pellets say that this is the mechanism.

All Hail The Great and Merciful Brisket,

DLB

 

Hello Dwight, I remembered reading somewhere, something about "welding" wood. Here is an article I found when I typed welding wood into google

https://www.cdbb.cam.ac.uk/news/developing-wood-welding-rapid-timber-joining-technique

I can imagine IKEA will be making their shelves out of this welded wood soon!

[JacksonMaberry]

11 minutes ago, Andrew tkinson said:

Hello Dwight, I remembered reading somewhere, something about "welding" wood. Here is an article I found when I typed welding wood into google

https://www.cdbb.cam.ac.uk/news/developing-wood-welding-rapid-timber-joining-technique

I can imagine IKEA will be making their shelves out of this welded wood soon!

My alma mater is at it again!

[Dwight Brown]

10 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

My alma mater is at it again!

Yeah pretty good joint. Newton and Rutherford and all!

“ In science physics is everything, the rest is stamp collecting “

Lord Rutherford 

 

DLB

[JacksonMaberry]

27 minutes ago, Dwight Brown said:

Yeah pretty good joint. Newton and Rutherford and all!

“ In science physics is everything, the rest is stamp collecting “

DLB

I took a moment to be upset on behalf of chemistry, but perhaps it's a branch of applied physics after all!

[Dwight Brown]

Last week when I watched the Queen’s funeral I could see that part of the abbey where Newton, Darwin, Rutherford, and now Hawking are. I have been there myself a couple of times and I loved that they were all together.

DLB

[MeyerFittings]

On 9/27/2022 at 4:07 PM, JacksonMaberry said:

https://www.wqxr.org/story/newark-officials-seize-budapest-orchestras-violin-bows/

One of many results if one googles "violin/bow confiscated by customs"

Actually the article is incorrect. African elephant ivory does indeed have Schreger lines but they can only be seen on the end grain. Also it would be impossible to tell from these the continental origin of the elephant, and the law specifies African elephants ivory. Mammoth ivory also has these lines but they intersect at a different angle than those of elephants. Only a forensic lab could see the difference if the lines were even visible.  If confiscated to be tested the ivory would have to be sent to the National lab, where the testing would be put in a que with all the other cases. 

 

[JacksonMaberry]

7 hours ago, MeyerFittings said:

Actually the article is incorrect. African elephant ivory does indeed have Schreger lines but they can only be seen on the end grain. Also it would be impossible to tell from these the continental origin of the elephant, and the law specifies African elephants ivory. Mammoth ivory also has these lines but they intersect at a different angle than those of elephants. Only a forensic lab could see the difference if the lines were even visible.  If confiscated to be tested the ivory would have to be sent to the National lab, where the testing would be put in a que with all the other cases. 

 

That's very interesting information, thanks for sharing! All the more disappointing, I suppose, as you'd think that the customs folks would  know at least this much. 

Quote from the article in question: "Proper paperwork was part of the problem. Claire Cassel, a spokesman for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS), wrote that an agency inspector "found on physical examination that the tips of seven of the bows imported by the Budapest Festival Orchestra were made from elephant ivory. (The material clearly exhibited certain types of lines – called Schreger lines – that are only found in elephant ivory.)"

So perhaps it's not the article that's wrong, but the USFWS service spokesperson quoted, right? Or possibly not wrong, but perhaps deliberately misleading? Hard to say. What is clear is that the confiscation did occur, whether or not the reasons as given were legitimate.

[Marty Kasprzyk]

14 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

That's very interesting information, thanks for sharing! All the more disappointing, I suppose, as you'd think that the customs folks would  know at least this much. 

Quote from the article in question: "Proper paperwork was part of the problem. Claire Cassel, a spokesman for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS), wrote that an agency inspector "found on physical examination that the tips of seven of the bows imported by the Budapest Festival Orchestra were made from elephant ivory. (The material clearly exhibited certain types of lines – called Schreger lines – that are only found in elephant ivory.)"

So perhaps it's not the article that's wrong, but the USFWS service spokesperson quoted, right? Or possibly not wrong, but perhaps deliberately misleading? Hard to say. What is clear is that the confiscation did occur, whether or not the reasons as given were legitimate.

Is this ivory problem the reason why pianists don't take their own pianos on tours?

[JacksonMaberry]

19 minutes ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

Is this ivory problem the reason why pianists don't take their own pianos on tours?

I suspect so. Liszt famously toured not only with his own piano, but his own organ. Horowitz often lugged his Steinway around. Those guys were pre-ban, though.

Zimmerman has tended to do the same, but his keytops aren't ivory.