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'Verleger' or 'forgery'? - 'Anton Fischer Wien Anno 1866'


Spongebob
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A total "newbie" welcomes you. :)
Below are some photos of (my) violin - 'Anton Fischer Wien Anno 1866'.
I have already obtained very reliable information as to their origin (as you can guess, not very satisfactory).

...'Dutzendarbeit 'Markneukirchen area and has nothing to do with Anton Fischer.'

However, the question is... 'Verleger' or 'forgery'?
Both answers will be satisfactory :), because if:

- 'Verleger', ...it has something to do with Anton Fischer, the violin is from 1866 (my oldest) and it 'passed' through his hands/shop...
- 'forgery' ...it will be my first 'fake' violin in my 'amateur' collection :) ...but a question arises, what period are they from?

PS: would like to add that the bow is to the viola, I will also like to learn something about it...

Wojtek

 

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Edited by Renegade
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I should remind that I did a profile of Anton Fischer, Vienna a while back (and Joseph Fischer, Regensburg) here; https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/346509-joseph-fischer-regensburg/&do=findComment&comment=901808 The OP box is just a straight forward Dutzendarbeit with a fake label, which has most probably never been to Vienna, even on holiday, so to answer the posed question is that it is neither “Verleger” nor “forgery” (I think you have misunderstood the meaning of the word “Verleger”), just the usual with a random “Fahrkarte”

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Posted (edited)

Jacob, at your insistence, I'm studying diligently :)

---
verleger = distributor ie. sold by someone other than the maker/s
---
[Dutzendware doesn't mean cheap at all, there could be a wide range of prizes.
It was just the way how the Markneukirchen trade was organized.
To make it a bit more interesting, a wholesaler of Dutzendware was called Verleger, too.
They used this term both in Mittenwald (where there had no Dutzend) and Markneukirchen.
To make it clear, I'm saying usually Mittenwald Verleger (like Neuner & Hornsteiner, Baader) or Markneukirchner (Meinel & Herold, Schuster & Co. etc.).
Today the meaning is reduced to a publisher (print and distribution) of books or papers, that's quite right.
It's that what you might find in dictionaries.]

...this is a quote from the 'Blank face' post.

--- :)

 

Maybe I misspelled the question, sorry. Remember that I am a newbie...

Well, there are probably 'several options/plots' to this historical story. Remember that you, as specialists, use certain shortcuts, do not analyze topics and concepts that you know, but only use them...

We have a violin and a label.

As for the violin, we already know that Anton Fisher did not make them. That they have nothing to do with Vienna. This is the 'Dutzendarbeit' Markneukirchen area.

Jacob, from your post I understood that they were not distributed by Anton with his own label. In the post you used two significant terms (...fake label, ...random 'Fahrkarte'). In the world of guitars, washing machines, cars ...etc. labeling with a different label /brand is considered a forgery... and it's a product, not a label. I don't quite imagine that it was stuck on unknowingly/accidentally.

Therefore, one of my detective theories is 'forgery'. I do not really imagine that 'someone' produced or bought them for sale and unknowingly stuck a completely nonsensical label and filled in the date by hand. Regardless of the awareness or not of the sticking person, I wonder when he could have done it ...what age can this violin be?

Edited by Renegade
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There was a slightly different attitude in the 19th C. The Markneukirchen wholesalers printed and sold octavo sheets of labels (Fahrkarten), which anyone could snip out, and stick anywhere. My colleague in the Musikverein has a dusty heap of these in his workshop (which was originally the Lemböck workshop). Although you are quite right that this is a misrepresentation, you would be talking nonsense to call such stuff a “copy”. I wrote about these labels here: https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/330195-johann-adam-sch%C3%B6nfelder/&do=findComment&comment=621046

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13 hours ago, sospiri said:

I'm more interested in the bow.

I am more interested in the case.

It's a cousin of the one I have from Czechoslovakia circa 1971 (which was made a few years before 1971).

In other words...don't use it as a "clue"...^_^

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Posted (edited)
On 6/30/2022 at 1:22 PM, jacobsaunders said:

There was a slightly different attitude in the 19th C. The Markneukirchen wholesalers printed and sold octavo sheets of labels (Fahrkarten), which anyone could snip out, and stick anywhere. My colleague in the Musikverein has a dusty heap of these in his workshop (which was originally the Lemböck workshop). Although you are quite right that this is a misrepresentation, you would be talking nonsense to call such stuff a “copy”. I wrote about these labels here: https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/330195-johann-adam-sch%C3%B6nfelder/&do=findComment&comment=621046

Thank you for your valuable comment ...

Edited by Renegade
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Posted (edited)
On 6/30/2022 at 11:15 AM, sospiri said:

I'm more interested in the bow.

I bought a bow with a violin. It's rather a viola bow (67 g / 74 cm long) It's octagonal along its entire length ...is not marked. It's in perfect condition, without cracks.

Edited by Renegade
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