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Help identifying a German violin


vickiq
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I am considering to buy this violin from our local shop for my daughter. She really likes the sound and it fits in our budget. There is not much background information of this violin. The shop owner said it's from Germany and probably around 1840s. The label inside says "antonius gagliano filius nicolai fecit neap 1789". The length of this violin is 349mm. The shop owner said it's a small 4/4. My daughter plays 4/4 violin now and she said this violin is easy to play, maybe a small 4/4 fits her better?

I am curious to know your opinion about this violin. Thanks.

 

 

 

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It seems to be a good Markneukirchen region violin from roughly the mid of the 19th century. A more exact date is usually not to determine. Condition and setup look well.

An LOB of under 350 mm is usually considered to be 7/8. If it fits your daughters liking it might be right, too. Just consider that it could be difficult to resell it one day, more than with a violin of a usual LOB.

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2 hours ago, Blank face said:

It seems to be a good Markneukirchen region violin from roughly the mid of the 19th century. A more exact date is usually not to determine. Condition and setup look well.

An LOB of under 350 mm is usually considered to be 7/8. If it fits your daughters liking it might be right, too. Just consider that it could be difficult to resell it one day, more than with a violin of a usual LOB.

Thanks a lot for your reply! 

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1 hour ago, martin swan said:

I agree with Blank Face, but for me 349 is a large 7/8 or a small 4/4, and we have always found a demand fir such instruments.

Therefore I wouldn’t be too worried about resale …

Thanks for your opinion!

Another issue of this violin I just found out today was the violin is a bit uneven. The right side is a bit higher than the left side. Please see the photo. Is that a concern? 

02BE9D40-EDC2-4A73-B90C-33788118BE2B.jpeg

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Respectfully, do you have the owner's permission to post pictures of their violin here?

It is unethical to post pictures of a violin you don't own on a public discussion forum without the owner's permission or knowledge. 

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26 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

Respectfully, do you have the owner's permission to post pictures of their violin here?

It is unethical to post pictures of a violin you don't own on a public discussion forum without the owner's permission or knowledge. 

Oh, yes I do. I should make a statement in the first post. 

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34 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

 

It is unethical to post pictures of a violin you don't own on a public discussion forum without the owner's permission or knowledge. 

If the gentleman is considering to buy something, it is perfectly reasonable for him to seek a third opinion. Curious “Ethics”.

I couldn’t help wondering if the scroll isn’t later then the body

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14 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

If the gentleman is considering to buy something, it is perfectly reasonable for him to seek a third opinion. Curious “Ethics”.

It is perfectly reasonable to do privately. It is unethical to post a violin you don't own without permission on a public forum for discussion by people who may erroneously, ignorantly, or deliberately disparage the instrument causing financial harm to owner of the instrument.

Not all "third opinions" are qualified or useful or correct or made in good faith. 

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1 hour ago, vickiq said:

Thanks for your opinion!

Another issue of this violin I just found out today was the violin is a bit uneven. The right side is a bit higher than the left side. Please see the photo. Is that a concern? 

02BE9D40-EDC2-4A73-B90C-33788118BE2B.jpeg

A tiny bit of asymmetry is an appealing and common feature in old violins of all price ranges.

 

1 hour ago, GeorgeH said:

Respectfully, do you have the owner's permission to post pictures of their violin here?

It is unethical to post pictures of a violin you don't own on a public discussion forum without the owner's permission or knowledge. 

I would think the owner/seller would be pleased to read these positive comments.

It's a quirky but nice looking old fiddle. Do you not concur ?

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

If the gentleman is considering to buy something, it is perfectly reasonable for him to seek a third opinion. Curious “Ethics”.

I couldn’t help wondering if the scroll isn’t later then the body

I fought Vick was a chick?

U fink e's a geezer?

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

Have to be careful. George will probably consider “mis-gendering” the OP a grave ethical transgression:)

Which is worse, mis-gendering or using the terms chick or geezer or doing a mockney accent (is that racist?) I can't keep up with contemporary political correctness.

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10 hours ago, martin swan said:

I agree with Blank Face, but for me 349 is a large 7/8 or a small 4/4, and we have always found a demand fir such instruments.

Therefore I wouldn’t be too worried about resale …

 

7 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

I couldn’t help wondering if the scroll isn’t later then the body

At least I could agree with both (especially the flames of the scroll look different from the body's maple), but one could give the OP some support to negotiate the sale price.:)

4 hours ago, sospiri said:

I can't keep up with contemporary political correctness.

Actual political correctness seems to be making the fox lifetime judge about the rights of chicken, so don't worry too much.B)

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On 6/25/2022 at 7:16 AM, vickiq said:

Oh, yes I do. I should make a statement in the first post. 

Good, and thank you for following up. It is a nice-looking fiddle, and as others have said, I would not worry about the size. If it fits your daughter and your budget, then it looks like you have a keeper.

On 6/25/2022 at 7:05 AM, Strad O Various Jr. said:

that's complete rubbish with no legal backing

Nobody said anything about it being illegal. There are plenty of things that are both legal and unethical. 

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On 6/24/2022 at 12:58 AM, vickiq said:

I am considering to buy this violin from our local shop for my daughter. She really likes the sound and it fits in our budget. There is not much background information of this violin. The shop owner said it's from Germany and probably around 1840s. The label inside says "antonius gagliano filius nicolai fecit neap 1789". The length of this violin is 349mm. The shop owner said it's a small 4/4. My daughter plays 4/4 violin now and she said this violin is easy to play, maybe a small 4/4 fits her better?

I am curious to know your opinion about this violin. Thanks.

 

 

 

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10.jpg

Just would hope to learn the German ID, without the information for cornerblockology.

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We bought the violin. My daughter is super happy as this is the violin she can connect with after trying many old and new violins in our budget. Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated.

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

Now, there's an "un-ethical" question:D

It is not unethical, but it is certainly rude. Price discussions on MN usually descend into heated madness, and the OP is under no obligation to respond. I recommend that she not.

27 minutes ago, reg said:

As per VDM prices are often based on:

a) Build and Provenance 60%

b)  Sound (incl setup) 40%

I doubt that @Violadamore ever wrote that. But there are dozens of violin dealers with catalogs on-line selling similar merchandise that you can use to satisfy your curiosity as to how similar instruments are priced. 

"Sound" is subjective and malleable, and has little-to-no influence on the price of a violin. "Provenance" is unknown for most violins, and even if it were known, the chain of previous owners of most violins would have no influence on the price. Provenance only affects value if one of the previous owners was famous, infamous, or well-regarded for some reason. Search "Einstein's violin," for example.

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