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Paganini Centone di Sonate (Allegro) introduction


RobP
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Haven't visited in awhile but I'm working out the kinks for Paganini's Sonata No. 1 for violin and guitar, the violin section.  I'm having issues with the notes in Bar 7 of the introduction.  Specifically, how the heck do I get from the 3rd position C on the E string to A on the E string, and then to F when I don't have that many fingers or fingers which bend sideways?

I can't seem to get youboob to stop stalling right at the critical time in any of the videos no matter what speed I set the playback at, so I thought I'd ask the experts here.

 

First 2 notes in the first bar on the 3rd line down...

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Well I spent some time listening to the piece and figured it out.  After the fact I feel stupid for asking because it's obvious now.

 

On to bigger and better things I guess.

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Been hovering over the post.

So many questions. I missed a Paganini guitar and violin centric concert years ago. It was sponsored by a college. I knew the violinist, so it never occurred to me to examine the music assuming that questions could be asked, via e-mail. The concert was over ten years ago and the student, who I was to attend the concert and introduce the performers is now a professional player in Europe.

I know very little about the historical origins of Paganini's works. This one looks a bit theatrical.

The sequence of four- 64th + one- 16th note, lower a notes rattled me a bit. Snare drum, military drum? Timpani? Should have looked at the guitar part. The next section is tempo di marcia.

Does it pay to shift down being fortissimo? Paganini would likely have played it in position. Thought maybe could have started on the a- string, as it would be scary dramatic. Rather rare to see the triple dotting  

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I have been made fun of, many times, for contemplating musical passages. 

But having spent time with composers and soloists, some passages are never as simple as how the dots might sound on on the lines.

The general rule is to approach the playing, or readings, as simple or as practical as possible. Then we start to move things around. The a- note following the high c- can ring, especially as a stinger on the release allowing time to shift to the harmonic octave a- on the a- string, thus continuing down the "dimished" arpeggio in a contralto voice. I might consider playing it that way if dramatic enough as the dolce that follows is a bit sus. 

We sometimes get stuck.

I was working with a group of annoying ten year olds earlier this month Fussing with the e- tuner on the tailpiece for a minute, they were all impatient with me. Why bother fine tuning anyway? Then they started making fun of me by playing behind the bridge, on the after- length. Not to be out done, I started playing melodies on the after- length fingering on both the bridge side and the tailpiece side with the edge of my finger nail.

That teacher was pissed....

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I think the problem was that I'm not all that advanced and this piece pushes my abilities.  Which is why I'm learning it.  To compensate for that I overthought it.

 

I love the first movement of this piece.  Yes, it's very theatrical.  It calls to mind a bunch of brilliantly clad and colorful jesters bouncing around on a stage.  When I first heard it I immediately thought it should be named Humoresque, not knowing at that time that particular title was already in use for another piece by Dvorak.

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The 64th notes +1 are all on the violin.  G1 (A).  Lots of pauses and A notes in this piece makes me think ol' Pag was a fan of one note songs with pregnant pauses.

 

The guitar accompaniment part could be played on the harp fairly easily.

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There are lots of ways to play the notes, including just reaching up to the C with the 4th.  It's only C natural...

 

But stylistically this C should probably be on the A string, with some portamento up to it from the low A note, then down the A string.  If I was an adult beginner what I would work on is the usual easy stuff, which actually isn't easy, to perfect the fundamentals.  When after a few years it sounded like a pro could be playing it then I would graduate myself.  There's a traditional progression that works

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I have short pinkies so stretching for the 4th finger usually requires a small shift on the neck or I come in seriously flat.  I deal with it for most playing but I can't even imagine trying to reach that far without shifting all the way to 3rd position.  Especially since there's an E coming up in Bars 8 and 16 in the Tempo di marcia section of the movement (lower part of the page) that no one can stretch to reach without shifting to 3rd position.  Since I have to do it anyway, might as well do it for the C too.

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^Practice whole step patterns like G, A, B, C#, D# across all four strings.  That will get the pinky used to extending a half step.  You can train your hand to expand at the base knuckles.  But in what you posted what I would start with is C with 3rd on the A string, shift down to 3rd on the second A, 3rd again on the second F#, then the second D# and you're in first position

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Bill, I can practice like that until the cows come home and I'll still never get there.  The ends of my pinkies are at the knuckle of my ring fingers.  Compared to most other people, I'm 1/2" shorter than "normal."

 

I think I'm following your sequence for the fingering.  I'll have to see if it works or not for me.  Not that it's a big deal, like I said I figured it out already, but it could give me an alternative way to play this.

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^I've never heard the piece and my fingering might be really stupid for it but it's typical romantic fingering.  Re: the 4th, if you can reach a normal 4th now, then with some time and smart practice you can reach 4th and a half eventually.

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