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Not an expert, but it ticks off a lot of the boxes for the "usual," c. 1920s? (Fun to get a chance to apply the teaching of our senseis!) A closer look at the corners would show whether they are pinched together, but I would expect them to be, since they appear to be rasped off.  With a fiddle like this, the sound actually plays a role in its value.  If it sounds great, you can get more for it than... if it doesn't, I think.

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45 minutes ago, palousian said:

Not an expert, but it ticks off a lot of the boxes for the "usual," c. 1920s? (Fun to get a chance to apply the teaching of our senseis!) A closer look at the corners would show whether they are pinched together, but I would expect them to be, since they appear to be rasped off.  With a fiddle like this, the sound actually plays a role in its value.  If it sounds great, you can get more for it than... if it doesn't, I think.

Thank you. That makes since to me also. 

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So, I have no idea about assigning value, but your close-up images of the corners give me more confidence in my attribution.  I have played a few of these that sound great, and... you have to be honest with yourself here, but if it sounds great, I would think that $450 would be a bit of a low price.  But for the value of a 1920s Dutzendarbeit violin in playing condition, it is about right (I guess).  Others would have enough experience to put a price on it, but I think the best way to sell this would be to take it to fiddlers at festivals, and get them to play it--if it sounds exceptional, I would think you would get more than $450.

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23 minutes ago, palousian said:

So, I have no idea about assigning value, but your close-up images of the corners give me more confidence in my attribution.  I have played a few of these that sound great, and... you have to be honest with yourself here, but if it sounds great, I would think that $450 would be a bit of a low price.  But for the value of a 1920s Dutzendarbeit violin in playing condition, it is about right (I guess).  Others would have enough experience to put a price on it, but I think the best way to sell this would be to take it to fiddlers at festivals, and get them to play it--if it sounds exceptional, I would think you would get more than $450.

Thanks. I think that’s my plan if it doesn’t sell. I have a young fiddler who’s interested. It is a strong but yet pretty sounding fiddle. Hopefully it gets a new home this week. It’s far better than 90% of the 20’s German’s I’ve played. Someone has opened it in the past. I’d say that’s why it’s much better than normal. 

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6 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

I think that is the typical style of bridge for fiddle playing.

Speaking as someone whose clientele is primarily professional and serious amateur fiddlers of various genres: Country, Bluegrass, Irish, Jazz/Swing, American Traditional/ Old-time, I'll say the only thing that bridge is typical of is what you get when you have a violin set up in a general music store, and not of any style of playing at all outside of elementary school.

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11 hours ago, Michael Darnton said:

Some past friends of mine used to associate those with Luby c 1900--just across the river from the "usual". The unusual thing about them was that they were consistently better that the not-too-similar German product, and cheaper, too.

I think that makes since. The workmanship inside is far above typical German cheap fiddles. Hence a far better tone and resonance. I was not expecting it to sound good at all. It’s the main reason I posted it. It’s in good shape, but it’ll need a new bridge and nut. Possibly a fingerboard also. Otherwise it’s very nice for a cheap fiddle. 

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Thanks everyone for the wonderful insight into “more” German fiddles. I feel good about who’s buying it. He knows how to work on em. I’m happy there’s meat left on the bone for him. With a little work it might make him a few hundred also. 

 

Again, thanks to everyone! I love learning the history of every single violin. 

 

In return here’s a trick for the day. Place a small magnet on your G string at the edge of the fingerboard. Point the fiddle up. Play and watch the magnet dance north. 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Michael Richwine said:

Speaking as someone whose clientele is primarily professional and serious amateur fiddlers of various genres: Country, Bluegrass, Irish, Jazz/Swing, American Traditional/ Old-time, I'll say the only thing that bridge is typical of is what you get when you have a violin set up in a general music store, and not of any style of playing at all outside of elementary school.

I stand corrected.

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22 hours ago, Michael Darnton said:

Some past friends of mine used to associate those with Luby c 1900--just across the river from the "usual". The unusual thing about them was that they were consistently better that the not-too-similar German product, and cheaper, too.

Luby/Schönbach delivered the biggest part of their production (parts, boxes, violins in the white, finished instruments) across the border to the Markneukirchen wholesalers, starting a very long time before 1900, where they were labelled, and sold as "Made in Germany". K. Kauert gives some interesting numbers for this traffic, which one should read, also about the efforts to establish an independant trade from the Bohemian side. So that was obviously a psychological or otherwise motivated opinion, because they all were undistinguishable.

 

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Well, let me put it this way, then: there's an easily recognizable type of fiddle from that general location which is different from "the usual" that doesn't look that great but sounds good, and I can pick them out of a pile. I wouldn't call them the usual, because they definitely are different and recognizable to someone who's paying attention. And many of them have Czech labels. There's one in a parallel thread now which is even more so than this one, too--similar except for having a very shallow flat edgework with the crest way outside, which is more precisely the type for me. 

Jacob commented on ignorant people with this opinion; I would just say people more observant than he is.

I've said this before: "the usual" is for me not just big one pile of shit: there are quite a few types that are better and worse and I bet someone who really cared could separate them into types. It would be an interesting book, but I fear that real data about these is too submerged in prejudice now to be able to sort it out. The first step would be to recognize that they aren't all the same.

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10 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:

Well, let me put it this way, then: there's an easily recognizable type of fiddle from that general location which is different from "the usual" that doesn't look that great but sounds good, and I can pick them out of a pile. I wouldn't call them the usual, because they definitely are different and recognizable to someone who's paying attention. And many of them have Czech labels. There's one in a parallel thread now which is even more so than this one, too--similar except for having a very shallow flat edgework with the crest way outside, which is more precisely the type for me. 

Jacob commented on ignorant people with this opinion; I would just say people more observant than he is.

I've said this before: "the usual" is for me not just big one pile of shit: there are quite a few types that are better and worse and I bet someone who really cared could separate them into types. It would be an interesting book, but I fear that real data about these is too submerged in prejudice now to be able to sort it out.

I completely agree Michael. It's just another example of violin snobbery. The better Bohemian and Czech violins are a joy to play. Even many of the lower priced ones.

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On 5/30/2022 at 1:59 PM, Michael Darnton said:

-just across the river from the "usual". 

 

7 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:

 

Jacob commented on ignorant people with this opinion; I would just say people more observant than he is.

Quite right. I didn't notice a river either:)

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5 hours ago, Michael Darnton said:

Well, let me put it this way, then: there's an easily recognizable type of fiddle from that general location which is different from "the usual" that doesn't look that great but sounds good, and I can pick them out of a pile. I wouldn't call them the usual, because they definitely are different and recognizable to someone who's paying attention. And many of them have Czech labels. There's one in a parallel thread now which is even more so than this one, too--similar except for having a very shallow flat edgework with the crest way outside, which is more precisely the type for me. 

Jacob commented on ignorant people with this opinion; I would just say people more observant than he is.

I've said this before: "the usual" is for me not just big one pile of shit: there are quite a few types that are better and worse and I bet someone who really cared could separate them into types. It would be an interesting book, but I fear that real data about these is too submerged in prejudice now to be able to sort it out. The first step would be to recognize that they aren't all the same.

I can speak for myself only, but it was always clarified that there were several types and grades of quality within these violins ( not to speak about the “feine Geigen”), and not a lumping it all together in an undistinguished heap. 

It can be a sort of personal experience and sometimes esoteric how to sort them, but from mine I found that the “type” won’t give a clear evidence about a Saxony or Bohemian “nationality”. The flat edge with sharp ridge type (some say French copies) for example I found very often with a Schuster/Markneukirchen label inserted, while the Americans might have bought them possibly more often from the Schönbach trade, maybe especially after WW1. To conclude from these outside features to the quality of internal workmanship can be also misleading in my experience, not to mention things like later regraduation.

 I wrote it before, looking into the second volume of Zoebisch can teach you a lot about the different styles of Mnk making, and prewar Czech wasn’t different.

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