Michael Richwine Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 I've had a 1911 H Th Heberlein violin for a few months that measures 350mm (caliper), and I've never known what to properly call it. It sounds fine, with no noticeable tonal loss due to its size. It's my understanding that the cutoff for 7/8 is accepted to be 748mm and down. Should I just price it as a 4/4, call out the LOB and let customers try the instrument out and see how they like it? If I present it as a 7/8, that will reduce interest in it considerably, as well as the price that I can ask. This question is made more relevant by the fact that I am considering buying a Mittenwald violin of the same body length, as near as I can tell. I sell the occasional 7/8, but not often enough that I want more than one in stock at a given price point. If I can honestly sell a 350 LOB as a 4/4, that leaves me a little breathing room. I like to do the right thing, but don't see the point in being overly punctilious. Nor do I like hiding behind technicalities. Opinions welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Law Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 At 350 I think it is fair to just call it 4/4; I think of 4/4 as from 350 - 359. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoGo Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 Many del Gesus are barely over 350. 351 or so... They certainly aren't 3/4s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 350 is full size, many classical examples. Plenty of places/times where 350-352 was the rule rather than the exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strad O Various Jr. Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 If a violin is 350mm and the sounding, stop, and neck lengths are standard I would consider it small 4/4, but I recently had a violin with short stop length, short neck length and 323mm scale and 350mm back, this borders more on 7/8 territory to me, but others might disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeH Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 6 hours ago, Michael Richwine said: I've had a 1911 H Th Heberlein violin for a few months that measures 350mm (caliper) Hi Michael, if you measured the LOB using tape-over-the-back then it would be longer. In my experience, most LOB measurements are taken with measuring tape instead of calipers, although it is rarely specified what method is used. I view anything with an LOB (tape) above 348mm as full-size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Richwine Posted May 27 Author Report Share Posted May 27 Thanks for the consensus! It does grow about 1mm if I measure with a tape, but that's why I use a caliper. It's a little small overall, but IME not many 100+ year old violins conform to ideal standards. When I think what we had for measuring tools as late as the 1950s (engraved beech sticks, survey chains), I wonder that things came out as well as they did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deans Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 If someone comes along looking for a 7/8, you still should throw it in the mix. It might hit the spot for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wood Butcher Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 The back length, taken out of context, I don't feel is a huge help. It will also be useful to know the width of the bouts, the vibrating string length and rib depths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Brown Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 Full size. My Matsuda after the Lafont Del Gesu is 351mm and I'm not a pixie :-) I think generally most violin family measurements are done with a tape. Yes I am geeky enough to own a giant vernier caliper but I record stuff with some cool Starrett brand tape measures I have found. (anybody have a favorite?) DLB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Violin Beautiful Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 Maybe I’m the outlier, but I usually consider anything from 348-352 to be 7/8. There’s no absolute rule, but I’ve seen plenty of violins in that range called 7/8. Body length isn’t the only thing that can make a violin feel smaller, though. A narrower neck, a shorter scale length, narrower bouts, or sloping shoulders can all contribute. It’s not uncommon for people to try some Guarneri models and think they must be shorter until they see the actual back length on a measuring tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrypeacham Posted May 28 Report Share Posted May 28 Calling it “ladies full-size” would safely cover a lot of area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodacious Cowboy Posted May 28 Report Share Posted May 28 12 minutes ago, henrypeacham said: Calling it “ladies full-size” would safely cover a lot of area. we can't say that any more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Richwine Posted May 29 Author Report Share Posted May 29 I'll call it a 4/4 and point out that it's "compact," make it a feature, not a bug. Point out the benefits to those who can benefit. As long as people are aware of what they are getting and in control, making clear, informed choices, I'm OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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