Pernambuco or Brazilwood?

[classicalmusic]

Hello,

I have this nice bow stamped H.R. Pfrezschner and it has some gorgeous wood, but not sure if its brazilwood or pernambuco…

Its also stamped Germany and has some number stamps as well. Thanks for any thoughts. It weights 60.5 grams.

 

 

[little mouse]

parece ipê

[classicalmusic]

[MeyerFittings]

looks like ipe to me.

 

[classicalmusic]

What is ipe?

[GoPractice]

first person monkey

 

 

Could not resist. The generic term "Brazilwood" is too literally, wood from Brazil, though it might not have been from Brazil. Not very specific, though better more learned players and dealers have started to be much more specific. For a length of time better bows were divided into Pernambuco and Brazilwood, for perhaps the ease of the consumer to discern in quality?

Tons of information on Ipe online. I first learned about it from a guitar maker who was experimenting with the material. He was actually making decorative corporate furniture ( for their headquarters, ) but decided to start using the scraps. There is an interesting variety at some woodworking stores. I have used it without much success and apologize for the vagueness. Of the dozen sticks, most of the pieces have been heavy and depending on the orientation, a little over damped. I have experimented on a potential electric bass neck... 

[Blank face]

46 minutes ago, classicalmusic said:

What is ipe?

Seems to be a sort of compilation for several South American woods. Wikipedia names: Handroanthus impetiginosus, Handroanthus serratifolius, Handroanthus heptaphyllus and Handroanthus chrysanthus, and is also subsumized under the similar unprecise general term Ironwood.

At least I haven't seen any older Pfretzschner being made of this sort of wood yet, and the bow looks rather modern to me anyway. You could ask the actual Pfretzschner firm 

http://pfretzschner-markneukirchen.de/index.html

wether the bow is from their production or a fake.

[David Burgess]

38 minutes ago, classicalmusic said:

What is ipe?

It is an acronym for International Pants Edifiers, which can be given credit for most men wearing pants these days.

But you already knew that from doing a google search, right?

[classicalmusic]

2 hours ago, Blank face said:

Seems to be a sort of compilation for several South American woods. Wikipedia names: Handroanthus impetiginosus, Handroanthus serratifolius, Handroanthus heptaphyllus and Handroanthus chrysanthus, and is also subsumized under the similar unprecise general term Ironwood.

At least I haven't seen any older Pfretzschner being made of this sort of wood yet, and the bow looks rather modern to me anyway. You could ask the actual Pfretzschner firm 

http://pfretzschner-markneukirchen.de/index.html

wether the bow is from their production or a fake.

Thank you!

[sospiri]

3 hours ago, classicalmusic said:

What is ipe?

It's Faux Pernambuco. Or that is how it is marketed. Yes it's dishonest for sellers to call it Pernambuco and there is no need for this because it's a very good wood for making good l but inexpensive bows.

If your bow is finished with hard lacquer, that's almost a guarantee that it's Ipé.

[MeyerFittings]

https://www.teknistore.com/en/guitar-parts/1505653-naomi-green-sandal-wood-ipe-blank-rough-violin-bow-repaired-bow-head-for-4-4-violin.html

 

[sospiri]

15 hours ago, MeyerFittings said:

https://www.teknistore.com/en/guitar-parts/1505653-naomi-green-sandal-wood-ipe-blank-rough-violin-bow-repaired-bow-head-for-4-4-violin.html

 

Yes, that's the stuff. Looks very much like what I have. I wonder if it would be good for making pegs?

It's ponded Ipé from the Panama Canal, where it stood for 100 years before Eric Bittner and his crew reclaimed it and many others. Last time I checked his website he still had plenty more.

[uguntde]

I bought out of curiosity some cheap Chinese bows made of Ipe which play astonishingly well. They are looking for an alternative to the Pernambuco which is in short supply. Pecatte has made bows of 'Brazilwood' which are actually pretty good and still highly appreciated.  

[Michael_Molnar]

Ipe is used to make pegs and accessories. Maybe Dov Music still sells them.

[sospiri]

9 hours ago, Michael_Molnar said:

Ipe is used to make pegs and accessories. Maybe Dov Music still sells them.

That's good to know. I cut a lot of bow blanks from straight grained, knot free Ipé which was about half of what I bought and the rest of it can be put to good use also.

It's very low in price and in plentiful supply, but very nice wood, over 1.0 density.

[MeyerFittings]

Never tried turning it, so I don't know. I actually have more pernambuco cut offs from bow maker friends than I know what to do with. There is a lot of waste involved in cutting up bow blanks to get that right grain orientation.

 

[sospiri]

30 minutes ago, MeyerFittings said:

Never tried turning it, so I don't know. I actually have more pernambuco cut offs from bow maker friends than I know what to do with. There is a lot of waste involved in cutting up bow blanks to get that right grain orientation.

I can get 4 bow blanks from 25x20x760mm blanks if there isn't a knot. It's a lot of hand sawing, but worth it to save the best wood. 

This is an old school method. Modern methods waste a lot of Pernambuco even though it is much more scarce. 

 

[brokenbow]

I also acquired some inexpensive IPE China made bows. Of the ten, two have acquired broken tips with the usual clean horizontal break--due to no obvious impact or accident. I have also used IPE decking wood glued up for turning in a lathe. I find that the glue seams do not hold despite cleaning the bare wood with naptha before gluing and the wood prone to catching and cracking on the lathe more so than most woods I have used. Not a fan.

[sospiri]

10 hours ago, brokenbow said:

I also acquired some inexpensive IPE China made bows. Of the ten, two have acquired broken tips with the usual clean horizontal break--due to no obvious impact or accident. I have also used IPE decking wood glued up for turning in a lathe. I find that the glue seams do not hold despite cleaning the bare wood with naptha before gluing and the wood prone to catching and cracking on the lathe more so than most woods I have used. Not a fan.

Try a different source of Ipé I got mine from http://bittnerholz.de

And different types of glue. I also had problems gluing the tip. I tried various glues till I found one that worked. 

Other posters with more experience could hopefully advise on different glues.

[uguntde]

WHat about ebony - is this still allowed for finger boards?

[OzBod]

8 hours ago, sospiri said:

Try a different source of Ipé I got mine from http://bittnerholz.de

I think your click link may be bad? The URL as seen on screen is correct though ! 

Here is the English link to their home page:

http://www.bittnerholz.de/englindex.html

[sospiri]

13 hours ago, uguntde said:

WHat about ebony - is this still allowed for finger boards?

Yes, but for how long?

12 hours ago, OzBod said:

I think your click link may be bad? The URL as seen on screen is correct though ! 

Here is the English link to their home page:

http://www.bittnerholz.de/englindex.html

Thanks, I don't know what happened there?

[OzBod]

@sospiri The embedded link contained "bitnerholz", just one "t"; whereas their site name has two. Maybe was just an unfortunate typo, or a glitch in the post editor, when you were entering the message ;)

[little mouse]

the ipê is a wood from my region here in Brazil. is toxic when green. very ornamental. a study was done:

 Descrição: Madeira ipê (Handroanthus spp.) para arcos de violino : propriedades e avaliação técnica de desempenho (ibict.br)

ipe amarelo - Bing images

[sospiri]

4 hours ago, OzBod said:

@sospiri The embedded link contained "bitnerholz", just one "t"; whereas their site name has two. Maybe was just an unfortunate typo, or a glitch in the post editor, when you were entering the message

Yes thanks. I tried to correct that but something went wrong. I blame my phone going in and out of signal.