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Tarisio- Violin ascribed to Landolfi


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I think it was Robert Bein who said that the real value of a certificate is in the capacity of the one who wrote it and sold the instrument to stand behind it and guarantee the price of the sale, being willing to buy back the instrument if it's authenticity were questioned. Anything else is just an opinion. 

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I don't think there will be anything more wrong with Bein & Fushi certificates, than others certificates from the same period. Expertise is always evolving, along with scientific methods. That it wasn't available to them at that time, is no fault of theirs, and I'd imagine that Bob Bein had forgotten more than others would ever learn in two lifetimes.

It does seem necessary for those who are the next generation of experts, to cast doubt on the former generation, in order for their certificates to become necessary, and get paid perhaps.

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When Bob was alive it would have been his policy to accept any instrument back in trade as a prescribed way to clean up any messes and to keep such messes from public outings such as might appear to be the case with this auction. There was one incident incompletely reported in news articles of an instrument originally sold as a del Gesu being downgraded a step to Joseph "Filius A", but accepted back in trade at a del Gesu value, resulting in considerable loss for the company, but a solid PR win regarding the customer. Not many dealers would have done that. I don't know if this policy remains today under different ownership or anything about the circumstances of this listing. 

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44 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:

When Bob was alive it would have been his policy to accept any instrument back in trade as a prescribed way to clean up any messes and to keep such messes from public outings such as might appear to be the case with this auction. There was one incident incompletely reported in news articles of an instrument originally sold as a del Gesu being downgraded a step to Joseph "Filius A", but accepted back in trade at a del Gesu value, resulting in considerable loss for the company, but a solid PR win regarding the customer. Not many dealers would have done that. I don't know if this policy remains today under different ownership or anything about the circumstances of this listing. 

Good guy no doubt. But it might be a good that when buying an expensive instrument to pick a dealer/expert who is also young and healthy. 

Something tells me this "Landolfi" will still do OK.

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1 hour ago, deans said:

Good guy no doubt. But it might be a good that when buying an expensive instrument to pick a dealer/expert who is also young and healthy. 

Something tells me this "Landolfi" will still do OK.

Unfortunately young and healthy also often comes with a heavy dose of "inexperienced and risk-takingly stupid". Bob wasn't Robert Bein the expert from day one, but at that time there were still some people you could trust to lean on for help and maintain a pretty good record.--early on it was more like a Beare/Bein/Biddulph combo, really some of the best expertise in some decades when you add it all up. Another B&F advantage was that the sales person owner was not the expertise person owner, and at times they could be seen as working at cross purposes.

Today's violin world is different in both of those respects. We have tried in our own shop to keep some of that same distance by forcing all of those decisions to be unanimous, the three of us coming at problems from completely different directions and strengths, all with equal power, rather than leaving it in one person's control. I think that's an unusual structure for a shop that gives us some added safety that one-person leadership can't have. Could be wrong.

Second opinions are easier to ignore when they're not from a partner. I'm thinking of one particular RB mistake where the whole workshop was opposed to the violin, but he overruled us. And later regretted it.

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So let me get this straight... Bob certifies this instrument as a Landolphi but the "Tarisio Gods" (who often issue pro-forma certificates when they are convinced that something is real) don't think it so. Still if you get it at a good enough price you can sell it as a Landolphi with just the Bein certificate. I wonder how much that lot will go for...

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You might also be able to get a new certificate from someone else stating that it's a Landolfi (depending what the supposed issues are). If it's a dendro issue then that's a different story.

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3 hours ago, Shelbow said:

You might also be able to get a new certificate from someone else stating that it's a Landolfi (depending what the supposed issues are). If it's a dendro issue then that's a different story.

Isn’t it always a dendro issue? I can’t see any auction house choosing to demote an instrument with a good recent certificate for any other reason, since that would be against their own interests and against the interests of the consignor, who is the primary client.

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27 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Isn’t it always a dendro issue? I can’t see any auction house choosing to demote an instrument with a good recent certificate for any other reason, since that would be against their own interests and against the interests of the consignor, who is the primary client.

Yes I would agree, and I assume that it's most probably a dendro issue as you say. Although in some Tariso listings they do mention the dendro when there is a conflict with a certificate, although this is usually for very old certificates. You have much more experience in this field than I. Are there any other descrepancies that might cause them to be cautious other than a dendro?

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15 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

To me, the fiddle is a Landolphi with a later scroll. I don’t see where anybody is dreaming up any “dendro issues”, nor why anybody would rank a Tbay “proforma” letter ahead of a B&F certificate

Hahahaha Tbay... the question now is how much is a Landolphi with a French scroll worth? 

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10 hours ago, Giovanni Valentini said:

Perhaps because of the ca. 1700 'Maggini' with BF certificate and buy-back guarantee in the same sale?

Not sure why that has any bearing at all on the Landolphi.

Regarding the Maggini, B&F weren't the only people who believed these to be genuine.

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9 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Regarding the Maggini, B&F weren't the only people who believed these to be genuine.

Sure, but they did, and therefore, in this case, I would tend to believe a dendro-induced 'Tbay proforma' more than BF certificate.

9 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Not sure why that has any bearing at all on the Landolphi.

Sorry, I thought that was obvious: Because BF are neither omniscient nor infallible, and their certificates can be annihilated by as little as an uncomfortable dendro result (q.e.d). As this is clearly the case with the 'Maggini', why could it not be with the Landolphi?

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9 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Not sure why that has any bearing at all on the Landolphi.

Regarding the Maggini, B&F weren't the only people who believed these to be genuine.

This one doesn't seem to resemble the examples that I've seen that are now attributed to Rogeri - I'd love to know what people think about it...

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