Need help identifying violin bows, H.R Pfretzschner and W.E Hill&Sons

[SpicyChickenOil]

I've bought 2 bows from a current auction, I would like some common and identificaiton on those bows.

The W.E Hill&Sons one looks a bit doggy to me, because the wood does not look like pernambuco to me and I don't think that happends to a legit H&S bow.

The HRP one has a crack on the bottom but has been repaired, anyone knows if that's gonna affect the playability? 

[Dwight Brown]

Any markings on the tip plate of the Hill stamped bow (under the hair). ?

DLB

[Blank face]

The Hill stamped bow looks like the usual pernambuco they used. For more help in identification do what Dwight said and give more photos.

The "repair" at the Pfretzschner is simply an adjuster ring put of the end of the stick, usually the wood was removed partially for this purpose. It's more a sort of vandalizm which was unfortunately done very often in older times and brings a significant and irreversible devaluation. Playability is affected when the crack reopens again and the ring slips off, what happens often. A standard repair would be an internal bushing, sometimes with an also internal ring of carbon or metal, which hasn't much of an impact on the value if done well.

[Dwight Brown]

https://www.thehillbow.com/wehill-bowmakers/

This may help.

DLB

[SpicyChickenOil]

On 5/20/2022 at 4:50 PM, Blank face said:

The Hill stamped bow looks like the usual pernambuco they used. For more help in identification do what Dwight said and give more photos.

The "repair" at the Pfretzschner is simply an adjuster ring put of the end of the stick, usually the wood was removed partially for this purpose. It's more a sort of vandalizm which was unfortunately done very often in older times and brings a significant and irreversible devaluation. Playability is affected when the crack reopens again and the ring slips off, what happens often. A standard repair would be an internal bushing, sometimes with an also internal ring of carbon or metal, which hasn't much of an impact on the value if done well.

Thank you for the comment. 

Currently I don't have this Hill bow in my hand so I can't check the tip, but I'll get back to this later. I'm curious about the "Unusal pernambuco" you've mentioned, because the grain of the wood is clearly not pernambuco to me, the grains are too long and wide.

[Blank face]

You're confusing the flecks of Abeille with grain. The wood here is featuring the typical structure of pernambuco. OTOH I don't understand why you bought it at all when you were so sure that it's not real?

[SpicyChickenOil]

On 5/20/2022 at 4:50 PM, Blank face said:

The Hill stamped bow looks like the usual pernambuco they used. For more help in identification do what Dwight said and give more photos.

The "repair" at the Pfretzschner is simply an adjuster ring put of the end of the stick, usually the wood was removed partially for this purpose. It's more a sort of vandalizm which was unfortunately done very often in older times and brings a significant and irreversible devaluation. Playability is affected when the crack reopens again and the ring slips off, what happens often. A standard repair would be an internal bushing, sometimes with an also internal ring of carbon or metal, which hasn't much of an impact on the value if done well.

Thank you for the information, I've found another interesting thing on the Pfretzschner bow, there's this XXI marking on the inside of the frog. Does that tell anything about when this bow is made? or is that just a random thing?

[Dwight Brown]

3 hours ago, SpicyChickenOil said:

Thank you for the information, I've found another interesting thing on the Pfretzschner bow, there's this XXI marking on the inside of the frog. Does that tell anything about when this bow is made? or is that just a random thing?

I believe that was a shop mark put there to keep the stick and the matching frog together on the bench. You may find the same mark on the stick.

DLB

[Blank face]

Yes, these are assembly marks for the work bench, similar to the As at the Hill bow.

For big shops was the rule "2 dozens on the bench", so this bow and frog were number 21 out of 24 a maker in the Pfretzschner shop was working on at one time. They produced quite a lot during the between the wars period when the bow probably was made.