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Finally splurged for one of these…


germain
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16 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

I'd second the concerns about an airtight case, boveda or no. 

Imagine your fiddle is comfy in it's regulated humidity case environment. You go into the pit to play in an opera orchestra. You open the case and all of a sudden, the environment is immediately very different - quite dry from the HVAC system keeping the massive building warm in a cold winter. Your instrument now has no choice but to rapidly give up it's moisture to the surrounding air, and it's the speed of climatic changes that represent the biggest threat. 

My suggestion would be to keep the instrument in a silk (real silk) bag inside the case, get to your chair early, and open the case, leaving the fiddle in the silk, for as long as possible before taking it out to play. Extend the window of acclimatization for as long as you can, so that the adjustment can be gradual. 

In what way is a silk bag functionally superior to a cheap cotton pillow case, or a plastic garbage bag with some strategically-placed humidity-change-dampening holes?

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20 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

In what way is a silk bag functionally superior to a cheap cotton pillow case, or a plastic garbage bag with some strategically-placed humidity-change-dampening holes?

I'm not going to bs you on the science, because I don't understand it - this is anecdotal evidence, that's it. But silk seems to regulate the transfer of moisture in a way that other fibers don't as well. It's the operating principle of silk sheets, which keep you cool in summer and warm in winter partly by wicking or retaining moisture. Other materials don't seem to work the same way. At the IU shop over 40 years, Sparks noticed that the fiddles kept in silk bags came in to the shop with fewer humidity related issues than fiddles kept in no bag or other fabrics. He picked it up from Gingold and Starker, who claimed it kept their instruments safer from the effects of varying climate. Bloomington probably isn't as harsh as Ann Arbor, but it's still a punishing environment for instruments.

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5 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

I'm not going to bs you on the science, because I don't understand it - this is anecdotal evidence, that's it. But silk seems to regulate the transfer of moisture in a way that other fibers don't as well. It's the operating principle of silk sheets, which keep you cool in summer and warm in winter partly by wicking or retaining moisture. Other materials don't seem to work the same way. At the IU shop over 40 years, Sparks noticed that the fiddles kept in silk bags came in to the shop with fewer humidity related issues than fiddles kept in no bag or other fabrics. He picked it up from Gingold and Starker, who claimed it kept their instruments safer from the effects of varying climate. Bloomington probably isn't as harsh as Ann Arbor, but it's still a punishing environment for instruments.

Good to know… thanks for sharing. Where does one get a pure silk violin cover?

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7 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

At the IU shop over 40 years, Sparks noticed that the fiddles kept in silk bags came in to the shop with fewer humidity related issues than fiddles kept in no bag or other fabrics.

It is likely that fiddles put in silk bags was an indication that they were generally looked after better by their owners.

I can’t see how one could conclude silk bags were a primary cause of reducing humidity related issues.

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16 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

It is likely that fiddles put in silk bags was an indication that they were generally looked after better by their owners.

I can’t see how one could conclude silk bags were a primary cause of reducing humidity related issues.

causation =/= correlation, agreed. Merely passing on what I have observed and received from my teacher. As I said before, and I'm sure you saw it above so forgive me for repeating myself please, all my evidence is anecdotal. 

There were "repeat offenders", people we'd see in the shop every time the weather changed. If it was the second or third time we'd see someone for open seams, we might recommend a silk bag. If they actually followed through, we generally didn't see them again for that issue. 

But please do share your own experience on the subject of violin protection. I am always interested in learning more. 

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8 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

But please do share your own experience on the subject of violin protection. I am always interested in learning more. 

I use Strettos in all my violin cases. They work great to maintain humidity in cases. I recharge them by soaking in water every 7-14 days depending on the room dryness. (Hint: If they dry out completely, soak them overnight. They will fully re-hydrate.)

I also use a Sensorpush  gateway and sensors to monitor humidity levels when I am away. None of my cases are airtight.

I don't have anything against attractive silk bags, but I can't see how they could possibly work to keep an instrument properly humidified. 

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Even if a silk bag somehow offers better humidity control or modulation than a cotton pillow case or a paper bag (a claim of which I am highly skeptical), I still am of the opinion that repeatedly taking an instrument in and out of a bag (particularly a really slippery one made of silk) introduces more hazards than it remedies.

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5 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

I use Strettos in all my violin cases. They work great to maintain humidity in cases. I recharge them by soaking in water every 7-14 days depending on the room dryness. (Hint: If they dry out completely, soak them overnight. They will fully re-hydrate.)

I also use a Sensorpush  gateway and sensors to monitor humidity levels when I am away. None of my cases are airtight.

I don't have anything against attractive silk bags, but I can't see how they could possibly work to keep an instrument properly humidified. 

It took some calibration but I'm using a sensorpush in my instrument room.  As Maestro Burgess has stated before accuracy of Hygrometers remains a problem.  There are some calibration bags that let you test your devices at several different humidity levels.  I have had mixed results with them.

As far as I can find Chilled Mirror Hygrometers are more accurate but really only practical for museums and perhaps very valuable private collections.

https://www.instrumart.com/products/46086/michell-instruments-s8000-chilled-mirror-hygrometer

DLB

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I won't argue that it's slippery and that can present some challenges if one is doing things in a hurry. 

As I've said repeatedly, I don't have any hard evidence. I'm sharing some anecdotal information, no more, no less. I am ultimately not concerned with convincing you or anyone else of anything here. 

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5 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

can't see how they could possibly work to keep an instrument properly humidified. 

If you reread, that's not my argument. All I have said is that they seem to moderate the flow of whatever humidity exists inside or outside the bag, not "keep it humidified". 

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I trust my valuable instruments in a Calton case. The Boveda packs maintains the humidty for months in these cases.They are custom made to each instrument, are tough as nails, expensive but worth every penny if you have something worth protecting.

Yes they make them for violin family instruments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TPXCYg1X2M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WquayiwwcU

IMG_1338.thumb.JPG.fadff2446d61a1cf73223b38b6adb0f0.JPG

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

I use Strettos in all my violin cases. They work great to maintain humidity in cases. I recharge them by soaking in water every 7-14 days depending on the room dryness. (Hint: If they dry out completely, soak them overnight. They will fully re-hydrate.)

I also use a Sensorpush  gateway and sensors to monitor humidity levels when I am away. None of my cases are airtight.

I don't have anything against attractive silk bags, but I can't see how they could possibly work to keep an instrument properly humidified. 

Once you try Boveda you will never go back to Stretto (I used Stretto as well). Bovedas are rechargeable too but they don't tell you that. 

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13 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Even if a silk bag somehow offers better humidity control or modulation than a cotton pillow case or a paper bag (a claim of which I am highly skeptical), I still am of the opinion that repeatedly taking an instrument in and out of a bag (particularly a really slippery one made of silk) introduces more hazards than it remedies.

Silk bags block evil magic.  Everybody who reads "sword-and-sorcery" fantasy knows that:huh:  [Resumes doing a turbofan blade change on her riding broom.]  :ph34r:  :lol:

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On 5/17/2022 at 11:31 AM, germain said:

Yes very innovative design-  from the way the bows are suspended to the way the instrument is secured in place by being held in the middle of the case by its building blocks rather than applying pressure against the chin-rest and tied neck etc., also the shell is reinforced by metal. Amazing latches that create air tight case.
 

I had a GEWA air 1.8.  It had such a flimsy shell. A few years ago I slipped on ice the top of the case gave way in and destroyed the top of one of my teaching instruments.

 

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That looks like an impressive and very durable case.  I hope that it lasts as well as my pre-WW II Jaeger that I wouldn't care to part with.  :)

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11 hours ago, germain said:

Once you try Boveda you will never go back to Stretto (I used Stretto as well). Bovedas are rechargeable too but they don't tell you that. 

Interesting, and I am curious why you prefer Bovedas to Strettos. I also did not know that they were rechargeable.

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7 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Silk bags block evil magic.  Everybody who reads "sword-and-sorcery" fantasy knows that:huh:  [Resumes doing a turbofan blade change on her riding broom.]  :ph34r:  :lol:

Precisely! It's why I have a layer of silk inside my tinfoil hat when I come to Maestronet.

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8 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

I gotta start making cases. The difficulty and ROI is probably much better than violins.

Well, like any change in the flow of the stream, there will be disruptions.

There is at least one violinmaker who ventured into other industries.

I origami'd a corrugated plastic shipping case for violins for international shipping. Dressed them in thin Birch ply. The materials were locally being recycled, thus available, and with extruded plastic cylinders in the corners and around the neck, middle bouts, these boxes easily withstood hundreds of pounds of dynamic loads. 

I thought about throwing one out the window of a minivan, as a test, but the freeway ended before it hit 60mph. 

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17 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Silk bags block evil magic.  Everybody who reads "sword-and-sorcery" fantasy knows that:huh:  [Resumes doing a turbofan blade change on her riding broom.]  :ph34r:  :lol:

I keep my riding broom in a silk bag...

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