Selecting top quality woods

[Victor Roman]

15 hours ago, Don Noon said:

Here is a violin by me.  It was once preferred over a Strad, mostly on the basis of power for a live concert.

There are good Strads and bad Strads, good and bad moderns, and everything inbetween.  So comparisons can likewise come out all kinds of ways if you have some Strad or other and some Guarneri or other and moderns that may have been filtered some way or other.  But the old vs. new debate is really old by now.

 

Very, VERY nice violin Mr. Noon ! Very powerful ! Please, if you can, congratulate the young lady for such a meritorious effort. That is not an easy piece to go through and she does a very fine job. On the negative : please do not use the "autolevel" on recording as the violin sounds like it has only one gear - the "loud" gear. I can see the young lady does more but I can not quite hear it. 

For the sake of an informed comparison I attach here the same piece by an excellent Romanian player of the 60s and 70s, playing a good Stradivarius :

 

 

[Dr. Mark]

On 11/12/2024 at 5:53 PM, VicM said:

Maybe I am wrong but I do not think he was trying to convince you of anything. He was expressing his opinion. That Strad and DG made violins of variable quality is a fact. But maybe their "mediocre" is not what you are used to.

Hi - I think you misunderstand my statement.  I was indicating that I was open to evidence that my own expressed opinion might be wrong.  I've taken the shortcut over the years of not putting 'IMO' or words to that effect in conjunction with my opinions since it's usually less effort to clarify.  However, if I think I might be getting a bit rabid I like to clarify that I will change my mind if shown compelling evidence that I'm wrong.  Are we good now?

[Dr. Mark]

23 hours ago, Victor Roman said:

For the sake of an informed comparison I attach here the same piece by an excellent Romanian player of the 60s and 70s, playing a good Stradivarius :

Different acoustical environments, equipment, and setups such as mike positioning and other unknown but likely not identical electro-acoustical circuitry make direct comparison difficult.

[Dr. Mark]

On 11/12/2024 at 6:56 PM, VicM said:

On 11/12/2024 at 6:37 PM, David Burgess said:

Whether I or anyone else is entitled to evidence will depend on how credible you wish to be.
Should you claim that you have flown to Mars and back in a hot air balloon, I would be among those looking for evidence, and would think no less of myself or anyone else for doing so.

David, that's not me. I don't demand evidence to whatever people rant on on a public forum. I am not paranoiac. For example   I do not imagine my co-workers break into my locker or cupboards...    When you ask for evidence you automatically imply the other side might be lying. That has a tendency to dampen good relations and mutual respect.

It's not a matter of paranoia and there is no implication of lying.  In a discussion forum it's common courtesy when disputing a point to present your reasoning and evidence.  Dissembling suggests a lack of evidence and possible deceit, so it's not Mr Burgess who is implying anything but you yourself who's suggesting that you may be lying.  If you don't have the evidence asked for or think it may be ambiguous and open to other interpretations there's nothing wrong with saying so.  If you don't want to make the effort to find it, there's nothing wrong with saying that either.

Of course, you can go by whatever personal rules and constraints you wish (that don't break the rules of the forum if you want to post), but how you interact with others will affect how they perceive and treat  you.  Oh, and per my response to your earlier post - IMO.

[Mark Norfleet]

On 11/12/2024 at 9:27 PM, David Burgess said:

The woman in the video was a student at the University of Michigan when the video was made. The violin is owned by the Virtu Foundation, which lent it to her. I have no idea where the violin is now, or who is playing it now.

That's an excellent sounding instrument Mr. Burgess!  It's too bad you don't know where it is and if it is being maintained well.

[Victor Roman]

2 hours ago, Dr. Mark said:

Different acoustical environments, equipment, and setups such as mike positioning and other unknown but likely not identical electro-acoustical circuitry make direct comparison difficult.

That is true.

It is of great help if one knows the score and even better, if one played the piece. However, some aspects of what we generally call "tone" and I mean "behavior" differences between the two violins are quite obvious. Another aspect is that while the young lady does a wonderful job and does it live, the other player has far superior facility and ... it's a studio recording. Big advantage ! 

However, just in case it might help  you placing things in the right perspective : the Romanian player played three concerts per night during four consecutive nights sometimes in the mid 70s. No same concert twice. Plus a number of encores. Did not seem tired, quite the contrary. 

[Don Noon]

8 minutes ago, Victor Roman said:

However, some aspects of what we generally call "tone" and I mean "behavior" differences between the two violins are quite obvious. Another aspect is that while the young lady does a wonderful job and does it live, the other player has far superior facility and ... it's a studio recording. 

The live recording I believe is by an iPhone, so you get a lot of hall acoustics.  Knowing her violin as I do, I can not imagine any studio gymnastics that could make it sound like the Strad.  They are very different in character... power vs. purity... I like them both.  But maybe mine a bit more .

[Victor Roman]

11 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

The live recording I believe is by an iPhone, so you get a lot of hall acoustics.  Knowing her violin as I do, I can not imagine any studio gymnastics that could make it sound like the Strad.  They are very different in character... power vs. purity... I like them both.  But maybe mine a bit more .

You have a real winner there and if I would still play professionally I would not hesitate from using it. 

The hall acoustics I do not mind - am used to that. I wish I could hear more nuances - can't remember the word in English...  Volume variations..

[Dr. Mark]

43 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

The live recording I believe is by an iPhone, so you get a lot of hall acoustics.  Knowing her violin as I do, I can not imagine any studio gymnastics that could make it sound like the Strad.  They are very different in character... power vs. purity... I like them both.  But maybe mine a bit more

Well, there it is.  For no other reason (that I'm aware of) except for what I hear, in the first note your violin's tone seems smooth and pure but the corresponding note on the Strad has the character and visceral 'grab', for lack of better terms, that attracted me to violin music in the first place (I recall it was a 45 recording of Hungarian Rhapsody and (lol) Bublitchki on the respective sides).  I'm under the impression that some of that characteristic may be due to the recording device, which from the initial 'click' sounds like it may be an early tape deck, and possibly a diaphragm mike.  We may want to keep in mind that I have typical old man hearing - fine below 3 or 4 kHz with a loss of about 50% at 5 kHz and above over my younger sensitivity.  Live 'power' and 'loudness' I would be very hesitant to judge from these videos.

[VicM]

2 hours ago, Dr. Mark said:

It's not a matter of paranoia and there is no implication of lying.  In a discussion forum it's common courtesy when disputing a point to present your reasoning and evidence.  Dissembling suggests a lack of evidence and possible deceit, so it's not Mr Burgess who is implying anything but you yourself who's suggesting that you may be lying.  If you don't have the evidence asked for or think it may be ambiguous and open to other interpretations there's nothing wrong with saying so.  If you don't want to make the effort to find it, there's nothing wrong with saying that either.

With respect, I suggest you read the sequence of posts again and carefully. And then, if still not clear, you PM me. 

[VicM]

1 hour ago, Victor Roman said:

the Romanian player played three concerts per night during four consecutive nights sometimes in the mid 70s. No same concert twice. Plus a number of encores. Did not seem tired, quite the contrary. 

Been there, heard that. 1975 Last concert played was Bruch - absolutely fantastic, never heard better. 

[Dr. Mark]

1 hour ago, VicM said:

With respect, I suggest you read the sequence of posts again and carefully. And then, if still not clear, you PM me. 

Well, it appears that you want me to search for an implied but unspecific objection to the opinion I've formed from reading the posts, by re-reading the posts.  This is essentially doing your work to accomplish your objective so that you don't have to.  No thanks - I think I'll retain my opinion and pass on your suggestion.  Those who are in this thread for violin-related discussion are probably getting irritated by now anyway.

[bardia parmid]

5 hours ago, Dr. Mark said:

محیط‌های صوتی، تجهیزات و تنظیمات مختلف مانند موقعیت‌یابی مایک و سایر مدارات الکتروآکوستیک ناشناخته اما احتمالاً غیر یکسان، مقایسه مستقیم را دشوار می‌کند.

It would not be very satisfactory or successful for a violin maker to graduate and tune the top and bottom of his violin to a specific frequency. In my opinion, the top and back of the violin should be divided into imaginary zones and each zone should be tuned to a specific frequency. This will certainly not be an easy task, but it can be done.

[bardia parmid]

It would not be very satisfactory or successful for a violin maker to graduate and tune the top and bottom of his violin to a specific frequency. In my opinion, the top and back of the violin should be divided into imaginary zones and each zone should be tuned to a specific frequency. This will certainly not be an easy task, but it can be done.

[bardia parmid]

2 hours ago, VicM said:

با احترام، پیشنهاد می کنم توالی پست ها را دوباره و با دقت مطالعه کنید. و سپس، اگر هنوز مشخص نیست، شما برای من PM کنید. 

Your answer is 100% correct and completely logical. I enjoy the frankness of your tone.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

3 hours ago, Mark Norfleet said:

That's an excellent sounding instrument Mr. Burgess!  It's too bad you don't know where it is and if it is being maintained well.

I agree.  Excellent sounding fiddle.  Accidents aside, Virtu generally does a good job keeping up the instruments they lend scholars. If David wants to know where it is, I could probably find out for him.