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Violin ID? - some not "the usual" aspects (to my novice eyes)...


gaseff
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Several things on this one are not the usual, at least to my novice eyes...

  1.  The scroll
  2.  The scroll volute ....
  3.  The way the lining goes over the corner blocks.
  4.  The way the lining is let into the top and bottom blocks.
  5.  The double purfling.
  6.  The shape of the button.
  7.   Anything else?

Is this the “usual” or something different?   Thoughts on where and when it was made?

It has a “Carl Bachmann” label.

Thanks!

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36 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

The way the linings run over the blocks is unexpected, otherwise it seems decidedly "usual"

Built on back or outside mold?

I'd like to see more inside pictures of the corners to see the rib join (like pict 7). 

@gaseff, the triple-turn scroll is typical in the "Maggini" model violins. What is the LOB?

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I think that I had something kind of like that (not the Maggini model) around a few years ago. I was puzzled by it and finally showed it to a very fine restorer. He puzzled over it a bit, and said that it was perhaps from the Prague area?

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11 hours ago, gaseff said:

Glued on bassbar.

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Thanks. The smooth inner surface could indicate that it was hollowed with some machine. So I would assume that it was made in the early 1900s, when they also started to use an outside mould.

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14 hours ago, FiddleDoug said:

I think that I had something kind of like that (not the Maggini model) around a few years ago. I was puzzled by it and finally showed it to a very fine restorer. He puzzled over it a bit, and said that it was perhaps from the Prague area?

I went back through my photos, and it turns out that the instrument that I was thinking of really isn't that similar. You can probably disregard the Prague reference.

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3 hours ago, Blank face said:

Thanks. The smooth inner surface could indicate that it was hollowed with some machine. So I would assume that it was made in the early 1900s, when they also started to use an outside mould.

When you say "they", do you refer to makers of the cottage industry in Saxony? 

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5 hours ago, Blank face said:

Thanks. The smooth inner surface could indicate that it was hollowed with some machine. So I would assume that it was made in the early 1900s, when they also started to use an outside mould.

Yes.  I cannot see any plane or gouge marks on the surface.  There are many short (2-3cm)  marks that run perpendicular to the grain of the top.  They remind me of marks a belt-type sander might make on wood.

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2 hours ago, FiddleDoug said:

I went back through my photos, and it turns out that the instrument that I was thinking of really isn't that similar. You can probably disregard the Prague reference.

I would also say - the nearest place from Prague where this violin could have been made is Markneukirchen ... By the way, I think the shape of the button is quite significant for Saxon violins. As for the machining of the plate, it could be one of the pieces mentioned in this article https://www.thestrad.com/lutherie/cutting-corner-blocks-inside-the-markneukirchen-violin-factory/13450.article. And perhaps the non-standard method of linings is related to this too.

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1 hour ago, Fotios said:

And perhaps the non-standard method of linings is related to this too.

As @Blank face pointed out, the ribs look like they were made using an outside mold. Besides the linings, the blocks are asymmetrical and the rib joins look mitered, not pinched. 

I can't find any references to a "Carl Bachmann," real or imagined, only a "Carl Ludwig Bachmann" in Berlin, mid-18th century.

Could it be mid-19th century French?

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58 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

Could it be mid-19th century French?

Admittedly, France was the first thing I thought of when I saw the inner workings. However, nothing about the exterior of the violin looks French to me. And I would also guess the age of the instrument to be more in the early 20th century based on the type of paintwork.

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@gaseff, what is the neck length, and is the back cleated?

50 minutes ago, Fotios said:

However, nothing about the exterior of the violin looks French to me.

At first glance it looks like just another "usual," particularly the varnish. The back of the scroll "delta" looks typical Markie to me, but the squared-off corners and the edging look more French than German to me.  I suspect that the button has been re-shaped, and it looks like it has the remnants of nicks at the base.

So I see other hints of French in the body. 

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3 minutes ago, gaseff said:

5 5/16" - from the end of the nut (closest to the fingerboard) to the edge of the violin top next to the neck.

No cleats

So that is a long neck - 135mm. That would point away from French. So would no cleats.

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5 hours ago, tetler said:

When you say "they", do you refer to makers of the cottage industry in Saxony? 

Yes of course. I couldn’t think of anything other than a Markneukirchen/Schönbach region origin. There’s nothing what I would associate with French making, not even cheap and nasty „Caussin school“.

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18 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Yes of course. I couldn’t think of anything other than a Markneukirchen/Schönbach region origin. There’s nothing what I would associate with French making, not even cheap and nasty „Caussin school“.

Thanks

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