Andreas Preuss Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 That’s a ground I made a few years ago. It is representative for my general idea. I want to have a ground which fits the description ‘crystallized gold’. MFor this purpose I don’t want to use any real dyestuff at all. (No pigments or color extracts) As mentioned above, the simpler the better. IMG_1939.MOV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Preuss Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 A few annotations to this topic: 1. A good ground is not made by a recipe but by the result. 2. Even more than varnish, the way and methods of application make the difference between a mediocre looking and an outstanding looking ground. Experience is everything. 3. Any ground must/should be adjusted to the subsequent varnish. It’s a highly artistic skill. I see this as partly the reason why certain recipes fail for some makers but bring the non plus ultra for others. (I am exaggerating here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Molnar Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 Here is the Coronaviolin ground. I would like to share more photos but I have chemotherapy fog and nausea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Noon Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 6 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said: A few annotations to this topic: 1. A good ground is not made by a recipe but by the result. 2. Even more than varnish, the way and methods of application make the difference between a mediocre looking and an outstanding looking ground. Experience is everything. 3. Any ground must/should be adjusted to the subsequent varnish. It’s a highly artistic skill. I see this as partly the reason why certain recipes fail for some makers but bring the non plus ultra for others. (I am exaggerating here) Ditto. And: 4. Ground and varnish must be adjusted to the WOOD... color, porosity, depth of flame, etc. Maple, mostly. Each piece of wood is different, and testing every time is needed if you want to know what's going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerobson Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 49 minutes ago, Don Noon said: Ditto. And: 4. Ground and varnish must be adjusted to the WOOD... color, porosity, depth of flame, etc. Maple, mostly. Each piece of wood is different, and testing every time is needed if you want to know what's going to happen. 50 minutes ago, Don Noon said: Ditto. And: 4. Ground and varnish must be adjusted to the WOOD... color, porosity, depth of flame, etc. Maple, mostly. Each piece of wood is different, and testing every time is needed if you want to know what's going to happen. Don and Andreas Well said and thank you. Personally I will go to great lengths to preserve the brilliance and detail of the wood. This then is enhanced by the application of a clear separator coat which is ULTRA thin....prior to color. on we go, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliemaine Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 Joe, I like your balsam ground for the reasons you mention. A couple more using your product...Fun thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scordatura Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 How lightfast is aloe ferrox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonMaberry Posted March 26 Author Report Share Posted March 26 2 minutes ago, scordatura said: How lightfast is aloe ferrox? Quite! The colorant, aloin, is an anthraquinone with a good track record. Then again, if you want truly light-fast, ignore organic colorants and stick to quinacridones, perlyenes etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter K-G Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 On 3/25/2022 at 12:32 AM, JacksonMaberry said: Hey folks, Lots of ground topics lately and I'm happy about it. It's one of my favorite topics! Most of the threads have dealt with discussion, which is excellent and helps us all move forward. But what I'd like to do here is encourage folks to post a photo or two of their ground and tell us about their personal approach. Of course we should talk about it, too, but mostly it think it would be fun to see what everyone is up to. Here's what I'm doing right now. I first introduce some color and boost contrast with a synthetic Roubo tincture. Then the ground itself is a varnish of cold pressed linseed oil (Detwiller Linseed Products in Canada), aloe ferrox, and congo copal. Cheers! Linseed oil is the most beautiful there is on wood! Nothing will come even close. The question is, how long do you have to wait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter K-G Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 3-5% Linseed oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, Peter K-G said: Linseed oil is the most beautiful there is on wood! Nothing will come even close. The question is, how long do you have to wait? Nope, LO is dull and non reflective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonMaberry Posted March 26 Author Report Share Posted March 26 11 minutes ago, MikeC said: Nope, LO is dull and non reflective. I'd say both you and Peter are oversimplifying in opposite directions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advocatus Diaboli Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 Ground varnish on a scrap of maple. FullSizeRender.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonMaberry Posted March 27 Author Report Share Posted March 27 50 minutes ago, Advocatus Diaboli said: Ground varnish on a scrap of maple. FullSizeRender.mov 12.93 MB · 0 downloads Theeeere we go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Preuss Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 9 hours ago, Advocatus Diaboli said: Ground varnish on a scrap of maple. Looks like as if you got the same idea: crystallized gold! Looks good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Bress Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 On 3/25/2022 at 11:57 PM, John Harte said: Jim, I'm probably going to dig a massive hole for myself here... There are a lot of things that I look for in what I suppose could be broadly considered ground. One is the ability to see into wood structure and clearly see detail which, in turn, seems related to how structural detail reflects light. Blurred or veiled detail usually seems to dull the type of reflectivity that I am wanting to see. The degree of transparency within the wood structure and depth to which you can see into the structure and the degree of contrast at various incident light angles between those structural elements that reflect light, and those that do not, seem important in achieving a certain sort of look that I find appealing. Thank you John. That was a good description. The look you describe (seeing into the wood) is the look I love. My eyes still need more training to see the nuance of the right amount of depth/transparency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 15 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said: I'd say both you and Peter are oversimplifying in opposite directions That may be but every time I've put LO on wood it seems to have a dull non reflective effect that I don't like. There are some things I do like about it though. For example viewed straight on it brings out detail in the wood grain and allows light to reflect somewhat off the internal structure of the wood but viewed at an angle it has a dark non reflective appearance so I would think that with a layer of colored varnish on top this could enhance a dichromatic effect from the varnish since it would have an affect on how light reflects off of, or transmits through, the color layer. I don't have enough experience with it though to know for sure what it would look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide Sora Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 Okay, the composition of the ground, the application technique, and so on, are quite important, but I am convinced that the fundamental thing is the quality of the wood and the quality of the finishes. Many different grounds can give excellent results aesthetically very similar to each other, but there is no ground that holds if the wood and finishes are of poor quality, the Stradivari ground are striking because they are always backed by stunning wood...aged 300 years, as are the materials themselves that make up the ground. Difficult to get close, but I know, luthiers like to seek out the Holy Grail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Noon Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 3 hours ago, Davide Sora said: ... the Stradivari ground are striking because they are always backed by stunning wood...aged 300 years, as are the materials themselves that make up the ground. Difficult to get close, but I know, luthiers like to seek out the Holy Grail I have always believed that if the Holy Grail is the exact materials and methods of Strad, then at best you will get whatever his instruments looked like when they were new. If the Holy Grail is to get new instruments that look like Strads do now, then you need to do things that Strad didn't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flattmountain Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 17 hours ago, Advocatus Diaboli said: Ground varnish on a scrap of maple. FullSizeRender.mov 12.93 MB · 7 downloads Do you sell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonMaberry Posted March 27 Author Report Share Posted March 27 My personal goal is just to make it beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonMaberry Posted March 27 Author Report Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, Flattmountain said: Do you sell? Closest thing to AD's ground commercially is the Dr. JG McIntosh ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 46 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said: Closest thing to AD's ground commercially is the Dr. JG McIntosh ground. What's up with calling the varnish you make and sell, the "Dr. JG Mcintosh", rather than Maberry, or Walla Walla, or Hawaiian Luau party varnish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advocatus Diaboli Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 9 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said: Looks like as if you got the same idea: crystallized gold! Looks good. Something along those lines, yup. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonMaberry Posted March 27 Author Report Share Posted March 27 Just now, David Burgess said: What's up with calling the varnish you make and sell, the "Dr. JG Mcintosh", rather than Maberry, or Walla Walla, or Hawaiian Luau party varnish? I'll tell ya the story in a message! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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