Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

Lupot or Vuillaume...


germain
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, martin swan said:

Performers tend to have seen 10 Vuillaumes for one Lupot - if they've ever seen a Lupot ...

I think the Lupot and Vuillaume shops where on quite different levels when it comes to production and number of assistants.

I would love to have a Lupot viola!  I have held one.  I can't imagine that there are very many of them.

The epithet " The French Stradivari" almost always refers to Lupot in my reading.

DLB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only Lupot violin I've seen/heard in person was the one owned by John Dalley of the Guarneri SQ. It sounded great in his hands - blending when needed, soaring when the time came - a lovely tone and powerful instrument to be sure.

JBV violins I've seen & heard many, and played  a couple of them - some have been extremely fine examples. I don't know if I'm able to compare the two makers based on any of that, though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just played a Lupot so this inspired the question.  Hans Nebel always said “Lupot was the better maker but JBV the better businessman.” Then the choice of most top musicians I know seem to be always JBV. Including Hilary Hahn. I’ve played myself a few of each instruments and in my experience the JBV was consistently the better sounding instrument. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, germain said:

I’ve played myself a few of each instruments and in my experience the JBV was consistently the better sounding instrument. 

My experience is quite the opposite, but it's all a matter of taste ...

I would rate Pique alongside Lupot, both for workmanship and sound.

Not all Lupots are great, but I've never come across a Lupot that was anything like as bad as a poor Vuillaume - if Lupots suffer from any consistent defect it would be that they can be quite stiff, and need a big bow to get them going. I never played one which was inherently vile - quite a common attribute of Vuillaumes :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, martin swan said:

My experience is quite the opposite, but it's all a matter of taste ...

I would rate Pique alongside Lupot, both for workmanship and sound.

Not all Lupots are great, but I've never come across a Lupot that was anything like as bad as a poor Vuillaume - if Lupots suffer from any consistent defect it would be that they can be quite stiff, and need a big bow to get them going. I never played one which was inherently vile - quite a common attribute of Vuillaumes :lol:

I am assuming the reason with having the opposite experience is that most JBV I’ve tried were musicians owned instruments - selected with a great deal of scrutiny to fulfill the most demanding needs of the players. The Lupot violins I’ve seen were either at Tarisio or dealers around so perhaps not Lupot’s best…

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, germain said:

I am assuming the reason with having the opposite experience is that most JBV I’ve tried were musicians owned instruments - selected with a great deal of scrutiny to fulfill the most demanding needs of the players. The Lupot violins I’ve seen were either at Tarisio or dealers around so perhaps not Lupot’s best…

Amazing how discerning musicians magic their wonderful violins out of nowhere ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen many Lupot instruments (John Dalley's, Charles Avsharian's, one owned by a symphony in California, Erling Bengtsson's 'cello, one owned by the former Concert Master of the SF opera orchestra, etc, etc), cared for many of them and sold a few over the last (nearly) 40 years... though I've seen many more Vuillaumes during that time. 

Like Vuillaume instruments, not all Lupots are created equal, but personally I would place them on a higher rung of the ladder as a whole... although not necessarily as a hard-fast rule.

I agree with Martin about the tendency of (especially) the Paris period to be a little stiffer, but when set up by someone who understands them well, I have not seen this as a problem for a great player... and very possibly that character can end up being an attribute if dealt with properly.

Lupot's association with Pique apparently did not end when he established himself in Paris. I've seen Lupots from the early years there that seem to boast a bit more than just influence of that maker (and vice versa). Hands of makers like Gand père and ASP Bernardel were also involved in Paris.

Quick cell phone shot of the back of a Lupot that visited me a few weeks ago:

66776166382__BB2405D2-3059-472D-B174-41EEFC5555A7.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

I've seen many Lupot instruments (John Dalley's, Charles Avsharian's, one owned by a symphony in California, Erling Bengtsson's 'cello, one owned by the former Concert Master of the SF opera orchestra, etc, etc), cared for many of them and sold a few over the last (nearly) 40 years... though I've seen many more Vuillaumes during that time. 

Like Vuillaume instruments, not all Lupots are created equal, but personally I would place them on a higher rung of the ladder as a whole... although not necessarily as a hard-fast rule.

I agree with Martin about the tendency of (especially) the Paris period to be a little stiffer, but when set up by someone who understands them well, I have not seen this as a problem for a great player... and very possibly that character can end up being an attribute if dealt with properly.

Lupot's association with Pique apparently did not end when he established himself in Paris. I've seen Lupots from the early years there that seem to boast a bit more than just influence of that maker (and vice versa). Hands of makers like Gand père and ASP Bernardel were also involved in Paris.

Quick cell phone shot of the back of a Lupot that visited me a few weeks ago:

66776166382__BB2405D2-3059-472D-B174-41EEFC5555A7.jpg

 

Jefferey, that's stunning - what period is it? 1810ish?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for fun... a photo or two of the craquelure and state of preservation of the unpolished ex-Bengtsson Lupot 'cello of 1823 when it was in the shop in 2010. A great lesson reinforcing "Take really good care of it and leave it alone as much as possible!" Erling was a great steward.

Lupotvcvarnish.jpg

Hardly any wear to the coating.  Amazing thing. It's home is now in the Dextra Musica collection.

4883_pg2.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

The Dextra collection is extremely impressive. Some great contemporary instruments in their collection as well.

Yup! I was very pleased to have it end up there, as was the Bengtsson family. It was even accompanied by the original fingerboard (which was saved when it was replaced).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

I wasn't there... but would not be surprised if there was significant cross-over depending on the period. 

Haha yeah the story was that Pique who had developed an amazing varnish just outside of Paris was the supplier to Lupot. I am pretty sure that’s what I heard  from Rene Morell although I was more interested in tasting the wine he was offering so I hope I have the story right… 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

Yup! I was very pleased to have it end up there, as was the Bengtsson family. It was even accompanied by the original fingerboard (which was saved when it was replaced).

 

I suppose we must expect that given the continual rise in value of fine instruments, it is surely only a matter of time before the majority of the very fine (and expensive) instruments are in museum, foundation or investment group collections etc.

I'm not sure how it works in the US, but in the UK I expect that (as per the case of the Viotti at the RAM), many instruments in private collections may end up traded to the government in lieu of inheritance tax payments in the future.

I do like the Zanoli cello in the Dextra collection I must say. :wub:

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...