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Tarisio March 2022


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I was there yesterday. One of the employees was playing the Storioni. It's nice. I had a good look at it and the Lupot. The Lupot is flatter arched, beautiful varnish, didn't play it or hear it played.

Both were nice. They were not the focus of my visit, so I looked more in passing that anything else.

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On 3/1/2022 at 7:50 PM, Shelbow said:

@germain If you get a chance to look at or play the "Probably Balestrieri" I would be interested in your thoughts.

Spent some time at Tarisio today. Some nice sounding examples. While "Probably Balestrieri" was among the better sounding examples the "ascribed to Montagnana" was a few classes above. The Jo B Ceruti was the best sounding instrument IMHO followed closely by Poggi, Gand (Lot 141) and the Lupot (in that order). All Gadda instruments and the Carl Becker did not disappoint either. 

 

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My pleasure. I encountered some really nice sounding examples in the lower ranges (up to 15K). I particularly liked the Mennesson, Grandjon, Audinot, Lucci and of course as I mentioned the "ascribed to Montagnana" was great sounding. Rivaling the six digit lots. Although my understanding is that Hamma Certificates are not reliable?

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16 hours ago, henrypeacham said:

Anyone wish to speculate as to why Lloyd Liu bows are showing up in multiples? Skinner also had a few recently.

In following or paying attention to trends, which many of us do, there are times to sell.

On Maestro Liu... As a player, the bows are quite good and will always try one given the chance. All my encounters with him were learning experiences. I respected his opinions and consequently critique his bows accordingly and would purchase anything that suited my learning and further development as a musician. There must be others who think this way and had multiple bows by Maestro Liu. Most of these bows at recent auctions must have come up as a collection? Not certain... have not had the fortune to travel much due to work and the forced down time afforded by the pandemic. 

Really wanted to attend this particular auction as there were dozens of items worth trying. 

Also would likely not have purchased anything as pricing is so wacky at the moment. For some, this might be the time/ opportunity to sell their collections. I might be working on selling some pending the outcome of this sale as the numbers keep going up. Or am I mistaken in thinking that this is a "trend?"

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There's a broad-based increase in prices on all kinds of tangibles (plus real estate) right now - I think it's more a commentary on inflation/inflation fears than anything else. They pumped a lot of new money into the system during the pandemic, and the trend we're seeing will probably continue for a while - it's hard to sop up trillions of dollars...

 

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On 3/16/2022 at 11:40 AM, Three13 said:

There's a broad-based increase in prices on all kinds of tangibles (plus real estate) right now - I think it's more a commentary on inflation/inflation fears than anything else. They pumped a lot of new money into the system during the pandemic, and the trend we're seeing will probably continue for a while - it's hard to sop up trillions of dollars...

Thanks, this makes sense. It's crazy to try to speculate but I need that "gut" feeling before setting my price. But did not bid on anything this time around....

Now that there are an assortment global complexities, how do we view future purchases? I purchase to learn, as longer term ownership is better than an hours in a shop. Eventually they get performed on, once a vague idea of how to utilize the instruments is formed.

Were there any bargains in NY?

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I couldn't say whether there were bargains, but none of the high end lots saw bids - perhaps some buyers are pulling in their horns with everything that's going on.

I think the problem right now is that it's impossible to game out what's going to happen with dollars/tangibles/etc. in the mid-term. I'm trying to buy a house in Northern California right now (I must be a masochist, an idiot, or both), and aging the down payment is giving me a case of the screaming fantods.

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39 minutes ago, Three13 said:

I couldn't say whether there were bargains, but none of the high end lots saw bids - perhaps some buyers are pulling in their horns with everything that's going on.

I think the problem right now is that it's impossible to game out what's going to happen with dollars/tangibles/etc. in the mid-term. I'm trying to buy a house in Northern California right now (I must be a masochist, an idiot, or both), and aging the down payment is giving me a case of the screaming fantods.

Outside of the major city centers, home ownership in highly desired markets is for those with large cajones. 

I think you are correct, in that individuals who have the abilities are trying to make decisions given the opportities... that it is extremely difficult to predict that behaviour as a group... however intelligent. Frankly, I do not need more of anything but I believe that it makes something better within the scope of of existence.

One of my past students went to a very prestigious school in economics and found it very off- putting that all the students were interested in becoming wealthy. It makes sense that most ideally want the best value? The art might be in getting what we need? hating to quote Mr Jagger?

Good and best of luck. My brother is selling a home and his realtor is a bit lame.

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On 3/18/2022 at 5:40 PM, Three13 said:

I couldn't say whether there were bargains, but none of the high end lots saw bids - perhaps some buyers are pulling in their horns with everything that's going on.

I think the problem right now is that it's impossible to game out what's going to happen with dollars/tangibles/etc. in the mid-term. I'm trying to buy a house in Northern California right now (I must be a masochist, an idiot, or both), and aging the down payment is giving me a case of the screaming fantods.

Minor note: The William Forster cello  went for $120 K-- unless that's not high end.B)

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On 3/19/2022 at 9:01 PM, vlnclo said:

Minor note: The William Forster cello  went for $120 K-- unless that's not high end.B)

Not really. When I was there we were looking at private sale instruments 1 mil+.

A Forester is a good, professional, utility cello, only the finest examples being anything more.

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I assumed that the topic was auction prices. The very highest price  at the March 22 auction was  $250,000 for a Poggi violin. And it did receive a bid. As to what constitutes "high end", I guess it depends on what's in your wallet.

But apart from that, what Duane 88 says about Forster cellos is very interesting  to me. As an owner of a Forster Jr. cello, I've tried to find out all I  could about  the Forster family cellos. So far, all I've been able to come up with is the book "History of the Violin" by Sandys and Forster (Simon Andrew). I would appreciate it if anyone  has other reliable  references to recommend.

The aforementioned book lists  cellos made by both Senior and Junior. In the case of Senior, it isn't clear if the list includes all of his cellos or only  those of the  highest  grade. ( Sr. and Jr. both made three or four different grades.) In the case of Junior, it explicitly lists the best grade, A quick tabulation shows that, between 1774 and 1806, Sr. made 113 cellos of whatever grade. Junior started making cellos while working for his father I infer from the vague date references, that he began working for his father prior to 1779, at the age of 15. The fist cello he made on his own, after establishing his own shop, was in 1787. The book lists 74 cellos of the first grade as having been made with the Wm. Junior label--18 of which were actually made by his son (Wm.IV)  and employe (Samuel Gilkes). So his personal output was 56 cellos of the first grade. How many cellos of lower grade is not known, but there appears to be a lot of them.

 So Junior seems to have worked for his father for eight years before establishing his own label. So one question that occurs to me is what is the possibility that some cellos that were sold with the  Wm. Sr. label were actually made by Wm. Jr. To my inexperienced eye, there appears to be great similarity between cellos made by father and son. (I have seen a few Seniors.)

As to the relative quality of Forster cellos, I am interested in what Duane88 means by... .a good utility cello. 

Having said all of the above, I apologize to all those who are already familiar with  the Sandys and Forster book and for all the words I have just written. I'm just fascinated by the English makers--Forsters in particular--whose instruments I  believe are far better than what they've been given credit for.

 

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