Interesting New Violin!

[blobtheglob]

This is my new violin, I would like some help to possibly try to ID it? It is a stainer copy which the shop estimated to have roughly been made in 1780. The label is very faded however I'd love to learn more about it!

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by blobtheglob

[Nick Allen]

For starters Stainer's labels were always hand written. 

[Dwight Brown]

Hope you enjoy it and play many happy hours on it.

DLB

[Guido]

Obviously not Stainer but late 18th century might be right.

I think I see a one-piece lower rib with a “Mittenwald notch”, which is not exclusive to Mittenwald. The paper strip along the back centre seam, if original, could point to Vienna.

To be confirmed by linings let into blocks the violin looks like Mittenwald/ Vienna/ Prague or somewhere in between.

[Andreas Preuss]

If the label is original, the ornamentations on the border are similar to those used by Hornstainer in Mittenwald. Probably doesn’t mean anything.

[Guido]

Just now, Andreas Preuss said:

If the label is original, the ornamentations on the border are similar to those used by Hornstainer in Mittenwald. Probably doesn’t mean anything.

That’s an interesting observation. Apparently many old Mittenwald violins have original fake Stainer labels.

[Strad O Various Jr.]

nice old violin, but the soundpost crack on the back is a deal breaker

[Eloffe]

my best guess  is Kloz ........???

[Blank face]

35 minutes ago, Eloffe said:

my best guess  is Kloz ........???

For sure not.

I would assume that bottom, ribs and scroll could be from a Mittenwald origin, most probably more early 19th century than earlier (paper or parchment stripes were attached to the bottom seam almost everywhere in the region), but by the actual photos it's hard to tell if the belly belongs at all or if if was just mostly stripped off from it's original varnish. Also the photos don't give much clue if there's a bottom post crack as Strad O'assumed or just a deep scratch. 

[blobtheglob]

It is a deep scratch or repair I'm not entirely sure, I have attached some better photos of the inside and in sunlight of the back. To be honest I am just a student and this is the first violin I've bought myself so I really do not know much about these things! Thanks so much for all the help

Edited February 28, 2022 by blobtheglob

[Strad O Various Jr.]

what's the odds of a deep scratch being right in the most likely place for a soundpost crack, perhaps the OP could enlighten us.

[jacobsaunders]

If it had a Mathias Thir label in it, it would have me scratching my head. If so, the varnish has largely been washed off, and the ribs planed down a couple of mm

[Shelbow]

At least they have patched the SP crack in the back. That is something.

[Guido]

1 hour ago, blobtheglob said:

It is a deep scratch...

No it's not. The picture shows the sound post sit on a big patch in the back. This is not necessarily a deal breaker but in any case a massive de-valuation. I hope it was reflected in your purchase.

[Guido]

2 minutes ago, Guido said:

No it's not. The picture shows the sound post sit on a big patch in the back. This is not necessarily a deal breaker but in any case a massive de-valuation. I hope it was reflected in your purchase.

P.S.: The fact that you have obviously not been advised about this is of some concern.

[blobtheglob]

6 hours ago, Guido said:

No it's not. The picture shows the sound post sit on a big patch in the back. This is not necessarily a deal breaker but in any case a massive de-valuation. I hope it was reflected in your purchase.

I payed £2200 for the violin and brought my teacher with me to try out some instruments. I'm not sure if I overpayed or anything but it certainly sounds beautiful! 

You're probably right about the crack however it seems to have been repaired

[FiddleDoug]

Did your teacher get a commission on the sale? It's one of the dirty secrets of the trade in some places. I had a friend who sued the teacher over a similar deal. Over paid for an instrument with undisclosed  problems. I don't think that I heard the final outcome.

[blobtheglob]

No as far as I know he has no affiliation with the shop?

[jacobsaunders]

17 hours ago, blobtheglob said:

I payed £2200 for the violin and brought my teacher with me to try out some instruments. I'm not sure if I overpayed or anything but it certainly sounds beautiful! 

You're probably right about the crack however it seems to have been repaired

In my view, you have a Mathias Thir, Vienna from +/- 1800 with an apocryphal label, which has has had the varnish (particularly from the body) largely stripped, the ribs reduced in height, with a back sound post crack with a patch. What something is “worth” is largely an esoteric argument.

[FiddleDoug]

39 minutes ago, blobtheglob said:

No as far as I know he has no affiliation with the shop?

I did say it is a "dirty secret". Those commissions get paid under the table, and you would likely not know anything about it.